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rumisong

the janitor

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rumisong

the only way to convey a truth-completely-seen, is to BE that truth, completely… one must be like a janitor- one may have the keys to a truth, but it is just a doorway- and the only job of one who has seen what is on the other side of that door, is to open the door and leave- if the truth of the other side of that doorway, is pulled into the hall and delivered, then the janitor has failed at his job- he has made the contents of that truth his own property, and as such, stolen the truth- this is how it is to create hierarchy, out of that which was never subject to it in the first place- the truth… this is not proper stewardship of the truth- to make the truth your own in order to enter into debate… the true janitor opens the door, and leaves the participants in the hall to find the doorway for themselves- to go through themselves… there is great humility to being a janitor, and this is what makes him the “keeper” of the truth… the debators may have clever means to “success” at their disposal, but they will never come upon the truth- they will only get to see what they came to find- more of their own “not enough”…

 

(this is why the janitor is always found mumbling to himself… his conversation is with unseen and unknown things, that the others in the hall have yet to find)

 

 

 

 

--------------------

note:the image (and thus, the word) of Janitor keeps coming to me by way of its etymology:

  • 1584, "an usher, doorkeeper," from L. janua "door," from janus "arched passageway"

 

and so,

 

Janus: ancient It. deity, guardian god of portals, patron of beginnings and endings, 1508, from L., lit. "gate, arched passageway," perhaps from PIE base *ei- "to go" (cf. Skt. yanah "path," O.C.S. jado "to travel"). He is shown as having two faces, one in front the other in back. His temple in Rome was closed only in times of peace.

 

the metaphor is so utterly rich- the "two faces" being a metaphor for that which has no opposites, or the mirror within oneself, if you like...

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tonyv

This prose piece presents quite an interesting metaphor, Rumisong -- janitor=keeper of the truth. I admit I don't quite understand the premise of the assertion that if one reveals a truth, he "makes it his own." Assuming that truths can be known, it would seem that this would only be so if one somehow perverts the truth, and he alters and skews it to promote his agenda, thereby creating propaganda. It's either truth or it's not, and I fail to understand how the way in which one becomes aware of the truth has any bearing on that fact. Perhaps you could elaborate ...

 

In America's Declaration of Independence, the Framers wrote,

We hold these truths to be self-evident
, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes[emphasis mine]

... and so forth. Perhaps some truths are indeed self-evident while others are not, but, even if this is not the case, the Framers, in the case of the Declaration, wrote, "We hold these truths to be self evident ..." Are all men created equal? Are they "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"? The Framers posited so, and others are free to agree or disagree. Are so-called self-evident truths actual truths or are they simply dogma? They may be truths or they may be postulates that people, like the Framers in the case of the Declaration of Independence, choose to accept using the highest level of reasoning of which they are capable.

 

This seems to go back to the old argument whether 2+2=4. Maybe it really equals 22. I don't know, but the axiom my brain accepts, understands, and can work with is that two plus two equals four. There may be other answers which I don't know or understand, but I think that it's important that a person, whenever presented with any version of an axiom, remains open-minded, willing, and able to consider other information as it comes to light, whether it's revealed by another or discovered by himself.

 

I was raised in the Christian faith. Having reached the age of reason, I adopted many of its core beliefs as my own regardless of assertions and purported "evidence" to the contrary. This is where faith comes in. But faith is faith and reason is reason. Perhaps there needs to be a balanced blend of both. Just as an animal's capacity to understand is limited by such things as the size and development of its brain, I believe that man is not yet capable of understanding everything (i.e.things that are not known by or revealed to him) solely through his own ability to reason. (I say yet, because the Christian Bible states that eventually all will be revealed.) In some ways, man is like the animals in the sense that he works with the information he has at his disposal. But, I think one of the things which should differentiate mankind from the animals is an ability to contemplate other possibilities and ideas as opposed to merely being limited to processing information presented by external stimuli and gathered by the senses.

 

Are any "truths" really scientifically "provable" without initial axioms? In the case of the 2+2 example, for the purposes of "basic" math, the answer is probably no. Higher math may work with a different set of axioms, and fuzzy math will always use its own. icon_lol.gif What does my blend of faith and reason make me? I dunno ... probably just pig-headed!

 

Tony icon_cool.gif


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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rumisong

THANK you Tony! for engaging with my piece this deeply! - dont have a lot of time just now, so let me return to give your lookings their deserved attention icon_smile.gif

 

soon...

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rumisong

truth

reason (logic)

faith

premise

assertion

axiom...

 

these are such laden words- heavy with meanings that can be quite beautiful, yes?

 

it brings me to here:

 

can we ever ask a question, and expect no answer?

 

can we ask a question together, and just rest in the asking- rather than looking for a place to land?

 

like a ferris wheel, we are up on top of the wheel, and it has stopped- can we just be where we are? or are we compelled to live in the expectation that we "need" to be on the ground?- Ill grant, naturally, we will have a longing to come to the ground- its our home, the very nature of our body perhaps... but can we just stay where we are, up in the air, safe in this moment, and contemplate an even truer nature than that which the soles of our feet cry out for?

 

if this might be possible, that we can do this together, then let me invite you to ask this question with me:

 

is there a place, that one can observe, which has no opposite?... is there something one might see, which is beyond debate? beyond the movement of the brain to agree or disagree? beyond the dichotomous activity of making a "you" and a "me" out of it?

 

may we call such a place "Truth"?

 

...

 

...

 

I think,

if we observe closely...

 

I think we might see that such a place cannot be touched with the intellect...

 

I think too, that we would see that this is a place that resides within every sentient being

 

I think that we might see an utter connectedness to all living things, and all of creation too, from the vantage point of this place... but this place will be found to reside WITHIN, not "out there"... its not an "out there" sort of place, you see...

 

I think, that we will find the moment we decide that its safe to go to this place (up at the top of the ferris wheel for instance) then we will see that we have already arrived- that the decision to look without agenda- without debate- without the movement of agree/disagree- will have found the beginning and the ending to be the same place...

 

if this were to be true, it would also immediately become obscured from view the very instant we were to return to the agree/disagree mind...

 

its sadly inevitable, that anything that is spoken of this place, will sound to be "obscure"... this is the very nature of language- of form... it is a mirror-

 

what it sees, will be what it is, when it looks from the "outside" in... but from the inside out, all is revealed just as it is, in Truth-

 

in this place, things like axioms and logic and even faith, as beautiful and perfect as they may be, become superfluous - and thus, they drop away...

 

from the inward looking, the outward is seen to be one with the inward- this is called "oneness"... from the outward pointed view, all things appear as separate things, and this will be completely true - however, only true from a partial perspective... but here, the inward has seen non-separation- and this seeing is by its nature, whole- thus, there is no movement to agree or disagree, to argue or debate, to compare or select...

 

the question becomes, what from the outward, is willing to open itself up? what is that part of the partial, that just KNOWS it is only a partial, and that there is a whole of which it is utterly contained? - that the whole is wholly the partial, but the partial cannot be of the whole... the part of the partial that knows this, is already whole... this is the true meaning of "holy"...

 

one becomes something like a janitor, upon the understanding of this "inward" seeing...

 

this is what the poem tries to speak of...

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rumisong

the only way to convey

a truth-completely-seen,

is to BE that truth,

completely

 

one must be like a janitor

one may have the keys to a truth

but it is just a doorway-

the only job for the one

who has seen the other side

is to leave the door

open

 

if the truth

from the other side

should be pulled into the hall

for delivery

then our poor janitor has failed

at his job-

treating the contents of

that truth

as his own property, and

as such, he

has stolen it away

 

this is how it is to create

hierarchy, out of that

which was never subject to it

 

the truth

 

it cannot be a

proper stewardship of truth-

to make the truth one's own

to enter into the debate

 

the true janitor

opens the door

and leaves

 

our participants in the hall

are to find the doorway

for themselves-

to go through

themselves

 

there is a great humility to being the janitor

this is what makes him the “keeper”

of truth… the debators

may have clever means

for “success”

at their disposal

but for their sadness

they may never come upon the truth

(we will only get to see

what we've come to find

in our debate-

more of our own “not enough”)…

 

this is why

the janitor

is found to be

mumbling to himself-

 

his conversation has been

with unseen

unknown things, that others

in the hall

have yet to discover

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tonyv

Thank you, Rumisong, for elaborating.

rumisong wrote:

 

truth

reason (logic)

faith

premise

assertion

axiom...

 

these are such laden words- heavy with meanings that can be quite beautiful, yes?

 

it brings me to here:

 

can we ever ask a question, and expect no answer?

 

can we ask a question together, and just
rest
in the asking- rather than looking for a place to land?
[emphasis mine]

I do believe that your questions up until this point are rhetorical, icon_smile.gif so I will let them speak for themselves ...

 

That point when one is at the top of the ferris wheel may very well be that state of true contentment. Perhaps it's not nature rather just a bad habit of mankind to always long for the ground when true contentment could be found at the top of the ferris wheel -- exactly in the place where one is in the moment. I have always tried to make -- to look for -- the best in every situation, in the here and now, but, up until this point, I really haven't had a whole lot to complain about either. (If one's life is hell, if he is stuck in some Gulag for example, he might have cause to complain.) Even so, I do complain sometimes ...

 

The rest of your ruminations are quite "Zen" and beyond my willingness to try to reach at this point in my development as a person. Nevertheless, I do believe we are even closer to understanding each other than it might seem, to witnessing that "truth" which you mention. Yes, axioms and logic may become superfluous and fade away -- I think I suggested that in my first reply -- but, for me, faith will remain in a place like the one you mention here:

rumisong wrote:

I think we might see that such a place cannot be touched with the intellect...

I can appreciate the beauty and accuracy of that characterization, and I can understand how language's limitations might play a role in any attempts to discuss the sublime. When Moses asked God his name (again, my faith icon_rolleyes.gif ), God replied, "I am that I am." How much more Zen can one get than that?

 

Although it's certainly possible that I missed the mark entirely in this topic of yours, I've nevertheless thoroughly enjoyed the delve into the philosophical. Thank you for indulging me, and thank you also for being patient with me.

 

I like your prose to verse entry, too. Don't hesitate to post it in the poetry section where it will undoubtedly garner more attention than here in the prose forum.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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rumisong

tonyv wrote:

I do believe we are even closer to understanding each other than it might seem, to witnessing that "truth" which you mention.

 

Ill bet you that is TRUE!

 

When Moses asked God his name (again, my faith
icon_rolleyes.gif
), God replied, "I am that I am." How much more Zen can one get than that?

 

HA ha! just this morning, I quoted this fellow on this very thing!!! of course it is zen!

 

Although it's certainly possible that I missed the mark entirely in this topic of yours

 

nope, I think youve pegged it... its just that "willingness" thing I think... when one goes deeper and deeper into unseen territory, then there comes a call to suspend some long held understandings- a willingness, should they shift from their original "meanings"

 

 

I've nevertheless thoroughly enjoyed the delve into the philosophical. Thank you for indulging me, and thank you also for being patient with me.

 

NEVER a problem, THANK YOU for going inward with me...

 

(sometimes I think of myself as a 'spiritual' version of a physical therapist ... "now, this may hurt a little" ....... "OWWW!")

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Larsen M. Callirhoe

enjoyed the conversation. perhaps when you find real truth you will learn knowledge is really only wisdom because their is many truths defined many ways yet only one path is chosen tho there are many. i have had 21 near death experiences and the weight of our lifes be it human or creature (animal) the mind is weighed down by this life of instincts hormones whatever. when you find the truth it will indeed set you free. we are only here to endure eternity. life is a reflection in a mirrpr. god is the mirror/ the reflection is different for everyone. wisdom true wisdom makes you sad when you learn the truth knowledge is defined so many ways it only becomes wisdom. the mirror is different for everyone yet it doesnt change. we all just describe the mirror differently is all. this is a good way of perceiving truth because fiction becomes truth or fantasy in time. all realities have constant light in their souls tht is why we exist forever even if we are dead we survive in our children thus life returns in cycles. we are just not ready to believe in god as one giving us each more than one perspective. thus true wisdom makes you cry proverbs 9:1 or 8:1 doth not wisdom cry.

 

vic

 

ps. i understood what you meant tom. i have the spiritual gifts of a seer. that is different than a prophet. i decipher dreams and intepret old languages. i am given free agency to describe what i see in dreams and visions. though i serve god i am not a seer of god. if i was i wouldnt be paralyzed or have crooked teeth lol. i see the future. it is always moving for the individual but the whole is controled by god by sending like spirits. maybe frank can respect this even tho he doesnt believe in god.


Larsen M. Callirhoe

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