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tonyv

Hubris

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tonyv

Paradise_Lost_12 rs3.jpg
 

Hubris

That foggy decade past
you were a headset voice --
we said a lot of things
and had so much to prove
we wrote a lot of poems
that always had the groove --
but now, you're losing me;
and if I were not strong
I would be someone else
admitting that he's wrong,
that you are leaving me.


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Tinker

Tony,  Are you writing more or just sharing more?   This image had me hearing voices.

19 hours ago, tonyv said:

you were a headset voice --


This is a tight little gem that has me wondering who would leave you.  

~~Judi


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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tonyv
7 minutes ago, Tinker said:

Tony,  Are you writing more or just sharing more?   This image had me hearing voices.


This is a tight little gem that has me wondering who would leave you.  

~~Judi

Judi, you're too kind. Any sane person would.

Tony 😀


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tonyv
3 hours ago, Tinker said:

This is a tight little gem that has me wondering who would leave you.  

On the other hand, check out the boss change in the last line, Judi.

Tony 😉


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badger11

Don't know what the original was, but thrust of the poem indicates that the 'fog' has cleared. The 'we'  drifting apart. Liked that internalised feel of 'headset voice'. Great title.

enjoyed

Phil

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tonyv
21 hours ago, badger11 said:

Don't know what the original was ...

I changed the last line from "you're leaving me" to "you're losing me."

21 hours ago, badger11 said:

Great title.

enjoyed

Thank you, Phil.

Tony


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badger11

Good edit

best

Phil

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A. Baez

"Headset voice" is interesting. Does this mean she (?) was the station you were tuned into?

I like the flow of everything up till the last line. It had felt like you were slowly laying the groundwork for some well-developed point, but then, thump. The ending feels inconclusive, and not in a dramatic way: it's more like you were typing and then suddenly you looked at your watch and realized you had to leave for work.

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tonyv

Thank you, A. Baez, for reading and your thoughts.

On 1/23/2020 at 3:23 AM, A. Baez said:

"Headset voice" is interesting. Does this mean she (?) was the station you were tuned into?

No, it would be more along the lines of a Skype call.

On 1/23/2020 at 3:23 AM, A. Baez said:

I like the flow of everything up till the last line. It had felt like you were slowly laying the groundwork for some well-developed point, but then, thump.

I agree and thought so myself from the beginning. I want(ed) to end the poem, and I wasn't happy with the underwhelming dropoff. I'll leave it at that until I come up with a replacement line (or at the most two), and then I'll notify when I edit the poem.

On 1/23/2020 at 3:23 AM, A. Baez said:

The ending feels inconclusive, and not in a dramatic way: it's more like you were typing and then suddenly you looked at your watch and realized you had to leave for work.

Work would be a bit of the sretch, more likely the club lol.

With appreciation,

Tony


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A. Baez

Oh, I see! The headset was a literal thing!

Quote

I'll leave it at that until I come up with a replacement line (or at the most two), and then I'll notify when I edit the poem.

I'm glad you agree with my thought on this. It's hard for me to imagine how any one line could possibly make this poem feel finished, though. Maybe two, if the lines were just right, but my instinct expects a good seven or so more to really take this where it seems to want to go.  

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tonyv
On 1/25/2020 at 1:35 PM, A. Baez said:

Maybe two, if the lines were just right, but my instinct expects a good seven or so more to really take this where it seems to want to go.

I've taken your assessment of incomplete to heart and added lines eight to eleven. It's neither two nor seven, it's right in the middle: four.


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A. Baez

Okay, that is awesome, Tony!! You did all that was needed in those added lines, delivering a powerful rhetorical curveball thwop and turning the relatively nondescript preceding text into something much bigger--more resonant and universal. I must say, those new lines give the poem such a Frostian tone, with their pellucid depth; their confessional, lyrical, sonic, structural, "surprise," and understatedly ironic qualities, that it's almost like you're making it up to him for that sendup you did of his "The Pasture."

I just wish I could see some kind of punctuation after "prove." You have it everywhere else it's called for.

I so love the sense of compression you give with "strong/wrong" quickly following the more leisurely-unveiled pair of "prove" and "groove." Great job. 👍👍👍

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tonyv
20 hours ago, A. Baez said:

Okay, that is awesome, Tony!! You did all that was needed in those added lines, delivering a powerful rhetorical curveball thwop and turning the relatively nondescript preceding text into something much bigger--more resonant and universal. I must say, those new lines give the poem such a Frostian tone, with their pellucid depth; their confessional, lyrical, sonic, structural, "surprise," and understatedly ironic qualities, that it's almost like you're making it up to him for that sendup you did of his "The Pasture."

I just wish I could see some kind of punctuation after "prove." You have it everywhere else it's called for.

I so love the sense of compression you give with "strong/wrong" quickly following the more leisurely-unveiled pair of "prove" and "groove." Great job. 👍👍👍

Thank you, A. Baez, for the encouragement and this first-rate reply. I couldn't have said it better myself. :happy:
 

20 hours ago, A. Baez said:

I just wish I could see some kind of punctuation after "prove." You have it everywhere else it's called for.

I purposely left it out, because I so wanted to use "so" as a degree modifier:

we said a lot of things
and had so much to prove
(that) we wrote a lot of poems
that always had the groove

I didn't want to use it the way people always, informally, do when they mean "very." (I never use "so" when I mean "very.") 😉


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A. Baez

Regarding "so/prove"--I see--that's not how I took it. Your intended meaning is more interesting. I think a comma after "prove" would convey this. Certainly, the voice pauses in such a context. 

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tonyv
8 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Regarding "so/prove"--I see--that's not how I took it. I think a comma after "prove" would convey your desired meaning. Certainly, the voice pauses in such a context. 

I will defer to your knowledge of grammar/punctuation. Comma added -- thank you.

Tony


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A. Baez

Actually, sorry--I just looked up this situation and found that what I recommended is incorrect! One must punctuate such a sentence as if all the implied words were present, and a comma must never be used simply to indicate a verbal pause. I see your desire to omit "that" for metrical reasons, but I'm afraid that for clarity in the existing sentence, you need it. However, a reconfiguration of the words that follow could achieve a solution.

I just want to extend my sympathies because I run into this type of situation a lot in my own writing, and often, I find that an illegal comma does not even have the redeeming value of improving clarity.

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tonyv
9 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Actually, sorry--I just looked up this situation and found that what I recommended is incorrect! One must punctuate such a sentence as if all the implied words were present, and a comma must never be used simply to indicate a verbal pause. I see your desire to omit "that" for metrical reasons, but I'm afraid that for clarity in the existing sentence, you need it. However, a reconfiguration of the words that follow could achieve a solution.

I just want to extend my sympathies because I run into this type of situation a lot in my own writing, and often, I find that an illegal comma does not even have the redeeming value of improving clarity.

Well, in that case, the comma is out. I'm okay with the "implied word" omission (great characterization -- I didn't know what to call it other than perhaps informal speech/writing) at the expense of crystaline clarity; I don't see it as a fatal flaw. In any case, thank you, again, for your hard work, the extra effort, research, thought you've put into it.

With appreciation,

Tony


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A. Baez

I got "implied word" from one of the websites I consulted. Initially I was not confident that I could actually find info on this question, so I had held back on researching, but when you said you deferred to my knowledge, I felt obliged to make sure that that trust was not misplaced! 😁 Then after awhile, lo and behold, I found what I was looking for. I'm really glad to get clarity on this point myself. I really do need to do a thorough review of grammar and punctuation rules, so this research was mutually beneficial.

If it were my poem, I might be inclined to try "That we wrote lots of poems/Which always had the groove" in order to get across the nice nuance of your intended meaning.

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