rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 goldenlangur wrote: I hope you won't be offended by the nit pick here - The first half of the tanka flows as one but the final line in the second half: not to be misunderstood does not quite link with what has gone before it. If one were to take the pivot line: the prisoner tells then the question would be what does the prisoner tell? And your L4 answers that but L5 is at a tangent to the pivot line. If one were to write: the prisoner tells of these wrongs perpetrated and misunderstandings then the second half of the tanka works with the pivot. But in tanka we need a final line that haunts, is open-ended and has sonority. Would you consider bringing out this concept of misunderstanding, carrying within it injustice and perhaps torture etc - hints at a great deal of emotional and psychological possibilites? But do please feel free to ignore my suggestion as I could well have got your intention wrong. oh, gl, I think you have my intention here and are quite on the mark with your suggestions... there are two secrets behind this tanka- and one of them Ill share now- the other is too subtle for me to work in just yet, Ill need to think on it for much longer- but maybe when Ive ironed out the last line, the other subtlety's way will reveal itself... the first secret, is that the prisoner is actually thinking not only of his own "innocence"- but he is aware that the misunderstandings go back into his own childhood- that he did not only NOT perpetrate any crime, but that the victimhood here extends far back beyond the events for which he was imprisoned... what these events are are still hidden from me, but this is what I was trying to capture in this... so, the haunting sonority that you refered to was trying to find its way into that last line- but alas, if it reads as far too obscure, then we must cure this... this is why Im thinking that "and misunderstandings" might also lead the reader towards the obvious "conclusions" of why this man is imprisoned- and I want to lead the reader AWAY from the obvious... Im not sticking to the word "misunderstandings" if we can find a better word... but I do hear his hapless plaintive cry- "no no- you misunderstand!" hmm... well now- maybe just that!?? 7 syllables too speaking in low tones care lent to every word published the prisoner tells of these perpetrations no no- you misunderstand! Im not too sure... "not to be..." still seems to hint at the secret a little better here... but if it doesnt "haunt"- if it only obscures? ... help me find something else... I love collaboration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) goldenlangur wrote: I suppose the art is then in that moment of meeting of minds/hearts and what this engenders is something that is beyond the artist and the reader/spectator/recipient. I found myself writing something rather long here- and so thought maybe it was worth opening up a new thread in General Discussion here. Edited June 24, 2009 by Aleksandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hello again, You've got me thinking about your tanka and taking on board your details about what lies behind the tanka, here's my take-on of it, always with the understanding that you're free to ignore it: In both haiku and tanka the more concrete and simpler the images the more the impact - less is more, in a manner of speaking. So here we go or not speaking in low tones care lent to every word (published seems extraneous?) the prisoner tells of wrongs festeringsince his childhood Does this get anywhere near what you intend? Thank you for letting me play around with this tanka; but do feel free to disagree. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 goldenlangur wrote: Thank you for letting me play around with this tanka lets play more with it as we see fit- I want to sit with what we have for a bit... goldenlangur wrote: speaking in low tones care lent to every word ( published seems extraneous ?) the prisoner tells of wrongs festering since his childhood Does this get anywhere near what you intend? my question is, are we spelling it out a bit too much- Im with the notion of simple and succinct- but we still want to surprise the reader with something from the subtle mind- is this so for Tanka? or is this not the sort of surprise we might look to embed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 To answer your question here, I quote a tanka of Yosano Akiko: rumisong wrote: [ my question is, are we spelling it out a bit too much- Im with the notion of simple and succinct- but we still want to surprise the reader with something from the subtle mind- is this so for Tanka? or is this not the sort of surprise we might look to embed? evening of autumn rain how cold the pillar I lean against reading my lover's poem Akiko was a rebel and a huge influence in the way the tanka moved beyond the traditional courtly love songs to its present form. I hope this gives you some idea about what tanka can help us articulate. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandra Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I am excited by these topics haiku and tanka challenge how active are. I am reading you guys and enjoying. I will jump here little after, because here is a lots to read and work on . I am happy to see you enjoying here, having fun and nice conversations. Enjoy my friends, and Happy New Year Aleksandra Quote The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau History of Macedonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Happy New Year! yes, this has been enjoyable making new friends here do jump in soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 leaving without words you erased tomorrow such finality! even in dreams we meet without words without words we sms smileys flight departure gate I board the plane at long last to your applause on the phone not just your applause but the silence shared a refuge from unending questions and this unceasing ache unceasing ache rends night and day Samsara! what succour such wisdom in this depthless ravine this depthless ravine unsought by the sun and moon remains whatever else comes or goes even your love your love laces dreams with hope I pray in the next rebirth we meet again goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hello rumisong, Following your remark in the Poem I read Today thread about how your tanka is about a poet whose works/words are unappreciated/misunderstood, I'm trying again : speaking in low tones the prisoner tells how every word he ever wrote was stripped of intent As ever, do feel free to ignore. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Re: trying again Thanks Golden, Im glad you are willing to come back to this... Im still with it too... your latest is there next to the original on my worksheet now, and Ill give it a look again over the next days... its secrets WILL BE revealed eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 golden, Your tanka string is very impressive. I like how the next one picks up the main phrase in the last line from the previous one which stings the tanka sequence very well indeed. The tone in this string remains melancholy throughout. I particularly like this one this depthless ravine unsought by the sun and moon remains whatever else comes or goes even your love A feel of being neglected and at the same time helpless, impermanent. That "comes or goes" is reminiscent of flowers blooming and fading. Very well written. Lake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Looking forward to this, rumisong : rumisong wrote: its secrets WILL BE revealed eventually goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thank you so much Lake for taking a close look at this novice attempt at a tanka string. I struggled with the one you've picked. So I'm really encouraged that it worked for you. You've certainly caught the spirit very well: Lake wrote: The tone in this string remains melancholy throughout. A feel of being neglected and at the same time helpless, impermanent. That "comes or goes" is reminiscent of flowers blooming and fading. Lake I hope you'll try a tanka string. With grateful thanks. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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