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on the shore of comparative metrics I realize the deep and vast literature on this topic. Numerical Prosody -very little known in Arab world and elsewhere - has form and substance content. I think the use of the numerical form facilitate a lot in this field. This subject aims at clarifying the role that the numeric expression plays overcoming language ‎and idiom barriers. Thus, it shows the resemblance, analogy, contrast or variation between ‎poetry meters of different languages in a way that unspecialized people can understand. ‎ Just compare the first impression one has looking at the left and right sides of the following lines: --/-uu/--/-||-/-uu/-x …..clamo/res simul / horren/dos || ad / sidera / tollit. …. 22 /211/ 2 2 | | 2/211/22 . DUM da da DUM da da DUM da da DUM da da...Picture your self in a boat on a river wit…2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 . ا 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 2 = 2 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 2 1 2 ...... جادك الغيث إذا الغيث هما ..... فا علا تن ف علا تن فَ علا . O|O|OO||O|O|OO|... radjaz….2 2 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 1 2 = 2 2 3 2 2 3 . da DUM da DUM da DUM da Dum…. Iambic tetrameter …1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 . – u – u u u – u – u –…..de va de va ja ga ta¯m pa te vi bho …2 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 . It is not meant to discuss the principles and rules of meters, though I have mentioned a little of ‎that.‎ The examples and links lead to more in this regard and generate questions. This is an aim in ‎itself, because it encourages further study and elaboration on the subject.‎ Part 1 . ‎ Meter is used as a measure both in many aspects starting with distance or ‎length extending to electricity, sound, water flow, heat etc. though the units may differ ‎between a system and another, The mere existence of a unit has the same implication to all people in all ‎feilds, it means the the existence of a quantity composed of units‎ For the pair of (Small,short, unaccentual, unstressed) and( Big, long,strong, ‎accentual, ‎stressed‎)‎. Here are some examples in Western, Arabic and other prosodies Arabic : ( o - ) , (- o) , (o / ) (u /) (1 2) https://sites.google.../Home/tareekh11 Urdu : ( s L) , ( - = ) , (~ - ) ‎ Persian : ( u - ) ‎ Turkish : ( . - )‎ . Western : ( da DUM ) , (x / ) , ( u s ) Pàëi ‎ : ( 1 2 ) ‎ http://www.metta.lk/...tm#one17‎ http://www.metta.lk/...osody/index.htm Indian -Sanskrita : ( 1 2 ),‎ ( L H) http://www.columbia...._001/index.html Their Grammatical And Metrical Literature - page 140 ‎. http://www.al-mostaf...ile=i000269.pdf Unifying symbols by using 1 and 2 only would be a step to familiarize the poetry meter ‎of a certain language to those who even do not speak that language and will facilitate ‎the study of comperative prosody.‎ We should carry in mind in this regards that the same ( numerical) meter in two ‎languages has one of two indications:‎ ‎1-‎ Resemblance when the two prosodies are of the same type. ‎ Arabic ,Latin and Hindu prosodies are quantitative.‎Khabab in Arabic and French are syllabic 2-Analogy when tow prosodies are different . English is stress based , Latin is quantitative https://www2.bc.edu/...ompmetrics.html English is a stress-timed language, French is syllable-timed. Poets in both ‎languages made efforts to import the quantitative metres from classical Greek ‎and Latin. In French these attempts failed in a very short time, and became ‎mere historical curiosities. French poetry remained with the syllabic versification ‎system, which is congenial to a syllable-timed language. English Renaissance ‎poets thought they succeeded in the adaptation of the quantitative metre. But ‎they were doing something that was very different from what they thought they ‎were doing: working in a stress timed language, they based their metre on the ‎more or less regular alternation of stressed and unstressed syllables, and not as ‎they thought, on the regular alternation of longer and shorter syllables. They ‎used the same names and graphic notation for the various metres, but the ‎system was utterly different, and well- suited to the nature of a stress-timed ‎language. Here are some examples of comparison:‎ ‎1-‎ Between Arabic and western prosodies ‎ A line of trochaic heptameter consists of seven trochees in a row: DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da ‎2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 ‎ A line of trochaic hexameter consists of six trochees in a row: DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da ‎ ‎2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 ‎ :Abul’ataheyah says : ليس كلّ من أراد حاجةً...... ثمّ جدّ في طلابها قضاها LAY...sa...KOL...lo...MAN...‘a...RA...da...HA...ja...Tan ‎2.........1......2......1....2..........1.....2.....1......2....1.....2.....1‎ TOM…ma…JAD...da…FE….ti…..LA…bi….HA….qa…DA.…HA‎ ‎2...........1......2..........1....2.......1.....2........1........2......1.......2....... 2‎ ‎2-Sanskrit and Arabic ‎ http://www.safarmer....n/skt-meter.pdf page - 3 ‎ d. – – u – – u u – u – –= 2 2 1 2 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 = 4 3 2 1 3 3 2 ‎ lab dho da y¯a can dra ma s¯ı va le kha¯‎ labdhodaya¯ candramas¯ıva lekha¯‎ ‎‘like the crescent of the risen moon.’ Indravajr¯a (H.2.154)‎. Ahmed Shawqee says:‎ ما كلّنا ينفعه لسانُهْ ........ في الناس من ينطقه مكانُه MA.... KOL… lo……... NA……... YAN…. fa…. ‘o……HO ….li ….SA…... NOH‎ FIN NA si MAN……….YON…..ti…….qo…..HO….ma….KA…..NOH ‎2……..2…...1…..….2……....….2……….1……..1……..2……1…..2…..……2‎ Arabic…= 2 2 1 2 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 = 4 3 2 1 3 3 2 ‎ Sanskrit = 2 2 1 2 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 = 4 3 2 1 3 3 2‎ They are precisely the same.‎ on the right side of the above equation we have gone a step further in grouping ‎numbers as followed in Arabic Numarical Prosody ( ANP) where two consecutive ‎steps are followed :‎ ‎1-‎ We add 1 2 = 3 every 1 2 = 3 ‎ ‎2-‎ We may add even numbers..... 2 2 = 4 …… 2 22 = 6 ‎ The priority is for step 1 ‎ . the use of 3= 1 2 in Arabic as a special entity (watad) enabled the understanding of the organic relations between the line syllables as a whole and the characteristics of various meters - Part 2 Galloping ( Arabic – Khabab ) . I chose word galloping for the title because it is the literal translation of the word khabab the ‎name given to an Arabic meter.‎ By the age of Augustus, poets like Virgil closely adhered to the rules of the meter and approached it in a highly rhetorical way, looking for effects that can be exploited in skilled recitation. For example, the following line from the Aeneid (VIII.596) describes the movement of rushing horses and how "a hoof shakes the crumbling field with a galloping sound": quadrupedante putrem sonitu quatit ungula campum http://en.wikipedia....tylic_hexameter what does this have to do with the Arabic meter ? This line is made up of five dactyls and a closing spondee meter = 2 11 2 11 2 11 211 211 2 2 this is one of the Arabic galloping meter Because of its length and the fact that it ends with a stressed syllable and so allows for strong rhymes, anapaest can produce a very rolling, galloping feeling verse, and allows for long lines with a great deal of internal complexity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapaest what does this have to do with the Arabic meter ? The immortal desire of immortals we saw in their faces and sighed. meter = 11 2 11 2 11 2 11 2 11 2 11 2 this is one of the Arabic galloping meter from Arabic, we borrow ( 2 ) = 11 just a matter of convention to represent two short or two unstressed syllables, in contrast with 2 which represents one . long or stressed syllable. This (2) for 11 is only applicable in anapest and dactylic) This is very similar to the convention of Wikipedia where U= uu (2) = 11 u u s = 1 1 = (2) 2 cv cv cV = 11 2 = (2) 2 cv cv cvc = 11 2* = (2) 2* the convention ( 2 ) = 11 just a matter of convention ( only in anapest and dactylic) . This restriction is just normal since 11 exsist only in these two galloping-khabab meters. so there are 2 meters giving the same impression : 1-The dactylic meter, a repetition of 2 11 = 2 (2) ,” describes the movement of rushing horses and how a hoof shakes the crumbling field with a galloping sound": 2-the anapest meter, a reprtition of 11 2 = (2) 2 , “ produces a very rolling, galloping feeling verse” The same word, galloping (Khabab ) is used in Wikipedia to describe both meters What is common in these two meters ? They consist of either stressed/long syllables= twos/ 2 and even numbers of unstressed/short syllables (twos)11 = (2) - The anapest ends with a stressed syllable 2 . “ In strict dactylic hexameter, each of these feet would be a dactyl, but classical meter allows for the substitution of a spondee in place of a dactyl in most positions. Specifically, the first four feet can either be dactyls or spondees more or less freely. The fifth foot is frequently a dactyl (around 95% of the time in Homer). The sixth foot is always a spondee, though it may be anceps. Thus the dactylic line most normally looks as follows:” — U | — U| — U | — U | — u u | — X “http://en.wikipedia....tylic_hexameter So both meters anapest and mostly the dactylic hexameter end with a stressed syllable These two points apply in Arabic galloping-khabab meter. In Arabic galloping-khabab meter, All syllables should be 2 = - or (2) =U never having 1 = u alone. Except for the last syllable, it has to be strong/long - = 2 and never (2)= 11= uu=U. that is syllables have to be even according to the idioms 2 & (2) To go further in the comparison with Arabic , What if all syllables are composed of 2 which is even ( with no individual u=1 ) too.= spondee What if all syllables are composed of (2) which is even ( with no individual u=1 ) too.= pyrrhic Since both are somposed of even 2 or (2) with no odd 1=u , both can be classified as khabab in Arabic . But Spondee 2 2 alone is rare whereas pure pyrrhic (2) does not practically exist Comparison Western : “It is unrealistic to construct a whole, serious poem with spondees, except in languages like Chinese - consequently, spondees mainly occur as variants within an anapaestic structure.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondee Arabic : But Spondee 2 2 alone is rare Pyrrhics alone are not used to construct an entire poem due to the monotonous effect.[2] Poe observed that many experts rejected it from English metrics and concurred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic Arabic : whereas pure pyrrhic uu= U= (2) does not practically exist Tennyson used pyrrhics and spondees quite frequently, for example, in In Memoriam: "When the blood creeps and the nerves prick." "When the" and "and the" in the second line may be considered as pyrrhics (also analyzable as ionic meter) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic from Arabic, we borrow ( 2 ) = 11 just a matter of convention to represent two short or two unstressed syllables, in contrast with 2 which represents one . long or stressed syllable. This (2) for 11 is only applicable in anapest and dactylic) This is very similar to the convention of Wikipedia where U= uu (2) = 11 u u s = 1 1 = (2) 2 cv cv cV = 11 2 = (2) 2 cv cv cvc = 11 2* = (2) 2* the convention ( 2 ) = 11 just a matter of convention ( only in anapest and dactylic) . This restriction is just normal since 11 exsist only in these two galloping-khabab meters. so there are 2 meters giving the same impression : 1-The dactylic meter, a repetition of 2 11 = 2 (2) ,” describes the movement of rushing horses and how a hoof shakes the crumbling field with a galloping sound": 2-the anapest meter, a reprtition of 11 2 = (2) 2 , “ produces a very rolling, galloping feeling verse” The same word, galloping (Khabab ) is used in Wikipedia to describe both meters What is common in these two meters ? 1- They consist of either stressed/long syllables= twos/ 2 and even numbers of unstressed/short syllables (twos) 11 = (2) 2- The anapest ends with a stressed syllable 2 . “ In strict dactylic hexameter, each of these feet would be a dactyl, but classical meter allows for the substitution of a spondee in place of a dactyl in most positions. Specifically, the first four feet can either be dactyls or spondees more or less freely. The fifth foot is frequently a dactyl (around 95% of the time in Homer). The sixth foot is always a spondee, though it may be anceps. Thus the dactylic line most normally looks as follows:” — U | — U| — U | — U | — u u | — X “http://en.wikipedia....tylic_hexameter * So both meters anapest and mostly the dactylic hexameter end with a stressed syllable These two points apply in Arabic galloping-khabab meter. In Arabic galloping-khabab meter, All syllables should be 2 = - or (2) =U never having 1 = u alone. Except for the last syllable, it has to be strong/long - = 2 and never (2)= 11= uu=U. that is syllables have to be even according to the idioms 2 & (2) To go further in the comparison with Arabic , What if all syllables are composed of 2 which is even ( with no individual u=1 ) too.= spondee What if all syllables are composed of (2) which is even ( with no individual u=1 ) too.= pyrrhic Since both are somposed of even 2 or (2) with no odd 1=u , both can be classified as khabab in Arabic . But Spondee 2 2 alone is rare whereas pure pyrrhic (2) does not practically exist Comparison Western : “It is unrealistic to construct a whole, serious poem with spondees, except in languages like Chinese - consequently, spondees mainly occur as variants within an anapaestic structure.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondee Arabic : But Spondee 2 2 alone is rare Pyrrhics alone are not used to construct an entire poem due to the monotonous effect.[2] Poe observed that many experts rejected it from English metrics and concurred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic Arabic : whereas pure pyrrhic uu= U= (2) does not practically exist Tennyson used pyrrhics and spondees quite frequently, for example, in In Memoriam: "When the blood creeps and the nerves prick." "When the" and "and the" in the second line may be considered as pyrrhics (also analyzable as ionic meter) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic On the rare spondee- Khabab - - 22 is this Arabic children song . every line is composed of two hemistichs I know how difficult it is for some body used to one type of rhythm to feel the other type of rhythm. http://www.youtube.c...d&v=QGmbiud_bzw * I hope the simplicity of this song will facilitate the feeling of the quantitative syllabic Arabic spondee-Khabab rhythm The children repeat the chorus: tik.........tik.........tik.........yam.........mis.........lay.........a.........nCvC....CvC......CvC.......CvC........CVC.......CvC..... Cvv.......C-..........-.............-..............-.............-............-...........-..........C2*........2*..........2*........... 2*...........2*...........2*.........2.........C * Arabic Khabab-galloping is composed of long syllables 2 and couples of short syllables uu=11=(2). It does not allow any single short 1=u. The resemblance or Analogy with Arabic covers any of the following feet, and any mixture of them in any languge: Spondee DUM DUM = 2 2 , anapest = d a d a DUM = 1 1 2 = (2) 2 . Dactylic = DUM da da = 2 11 = 2 (2) Pyrrhic = (2) Khabab does not accept Iamic = da DUM = 1 2 , trochaic = Dum da = 2 1 since each of them contains a single u=1. But should there be a language that accepts mixing of trochaic followed by iambic = Dum da da Dum = 2 1 1 2 = 2(2) 2, then that resembles Arabic khabab. Consider the following line, http://www.poetrymag...indpost&p=13689 Writing in meter's a cinch when you know how WRIting / in ME / ter's a CINCH / {when you / KNOW HOW} / / trochee / iamb / anapest / {pyrrhic / spondee} / The numeric equivalent = 2 1/ 1 2/ 1 1 2 / 11/ 2 2 Taking off feet boundaries = 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 2 = 2 (2) 2 (2) 2 (2) 2 2 This is an interesting outcome 1- Notice the recurrence of pattern 2 1 1 = 2 (2) 2- Accordingly reassign new boundaries between feet = 2 (2) / 2(2) / 2(2) / 2 2 The first three feet are dactyls the fourth is spondee. Is that the same ? Let us consider the line, quadrupedante putrem sonitu quatit ungula campum http://en.wikipedia....tylic_hexameter what does this have to do with the Arabic meter ? This line is made up of five dactyls and a closing spondee A - meter = 2 11/ 2 11/ 2 11/ 211/ 211/ 2 2 ..............= dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / spondee B - new feet boundaries = 2 1/ 1 2/ 1 1 2 / 1 1 2/ 1 1 2 /11 / 2 2 ....................................= trochee / iamb / anapest / anapest / anapest /pyrrhic / spondee C- new feet boundaries = 2 1 1/ 2 1 1/ 2 1/ 1 2 / 1 1 2 / 1 1/ 2 2 .....................................= dactyl / dactyl/ trochee/iamb / anapest/ pyrrhic/spondee D- new feet boundaries = 2 1/ 1 2 1/ 1 2 1 / 1 2/ 11 / 2 2 ......................................= trochee / amphibrach / amphibrach / amphibrach / iamb / pyrrhic / spondee Are A , B , C and D the same ? as far as the description of meter in terms of the two symbols ( da & DUM ) or ( 1 & 2 ) regardless of feet and their boundaries, I think the answer is yes. If I'm right, then are feet and their boundaries real? , or just idiomatic tools to describe the syllables and their arrangement rules. Can the same description be achieved by another means ? Is this numbering description capable of doing so? If the answer is yes or a probable yes, this will be the start of contemplating the investigation of the content and indication of numbers in this regards. This is where and when numerical prosody really starts. Introducing numerical approach to Arabic metrics, was generally neither welcome nor taken seriously. But after years of introducing it in many forums , the limited number who studied it know its value . And they know the wealth they have. They know the general few rules that control Arabic prosody .different meters, feet, detailed description are but manifestations of those rules. Thus came the differentiation between prosody and the science of prosody. Prosody is one’s feeling of meters, and describing them each at a time. Feeling in itself means some sort of being aware of prosody/rhythm. That is the case of the child when reacting to mother’s singing. The science of prosody / metrics is the awareness of the necessity of the existence of general pan-meter rules that control all meters, and seeking to define them most probably in in mathematical abstract terms. Part 3 : oral and visual * The brain receives visual and auditory input and distinguishes and categorizes them. If the numeric representation of meter have a real indication, then the visual representation of the numerical equivalent of a meter and the auditory effect of that meter should have something in common. The dactylic and anapest have been described to have the same galloping effect. Let us represent the numerical form both graphically. the following graphs shows dactylic tetrameterand anapest tetrameter. * how does spondee tetrameter look like ? *The linear graph of the spondee is just a straight line. No doubt, the graphs show that both the dactylic and anapestic meters are more vivid than the spondaic which sounds and looks monotonous . That goes well in accordance to limiting the galloping sense to the dactylic and anapestic meters. And to deciding that “It is unrealistic to construct a whole, serious poem with spondees". The same applies to pyrrhic meter. Consider the following line, http://www.poetrymag...indpost&p=13689 Writing in meter's a cinch when you know how WRIting / in ME / ter's a CINCH / {when you / KNOW HOW} / / trochee / iamb / anapest / {pyrrhic / spondee} / The numeric equivalent = 2 1/ 1 2/ 1 1 2 / 11/ 2 2 Taking off feet boundaries = 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 2 = 2 (2) 2 (2) 2 (2) 2 2 This is an interesting outcome 1- Notice the recurrence of pattern 2 1 1 = 2 (2) 2- Accordingly reassign new boundaries between feet = 2 (2) / 2(2) / 2(2) / 2 2 The first three feet are dactyls the fourth is spondee. Is that the same ? Let us consider the line, quadrupedante putrem sonitu quatit ungula campum http://en.wikipedia....tylic_hexameter what does this have to do with the Arabic meter ? This line is made up of five dactyls and a closing spondee A - meter = 2 11/ 2 11/ 2 11/ 211/ 211/ 2 2 = dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / dactyl / spondee B - new feet boundaries = 2 1/ 1 2/ 1 1 2 / 1 1 2/ 1 1 2 /11 / 2 2 = trochee / iamb / anapest / anapest / anapest /pyrrhic / spondee C- new feet boundaries = 2 1 1/ 2 1 1/ 2 1/ 1 2 / 1 1 2 / 1 1/ 2 2 = dactyl / dactyl/ trochee/iamb / anapest/ pyrrhic/spondee D- new feet boundaries = - 2 1/ 1 2 1/ 1 2 1 / 1 2/ 11 / 2 2 = trochee / amphibrach / amphibrach / amphibrach / iamb / pyrrhic / spondee Are A , C and D the same ? Are A , B , C and D the same ? as far as the description of meter in terms of the two symbols ( da & DUM ) or ( 1 & 2 ) regardless of feet and their boundaries, I think the answer is yes. If I'm right, then are feet and their boundaries real? , or just idiomatic tools to describe the syllables and their arrangement rules. Can the same description be achieved by another means ? Is this numbering description capable of doing so? If the answer is yes or a probable yes, this will be the start of contemplating the investigation of the content and indication of numbers in this regards. This is where and when numerical prosody really starts. Introducing numerical approach to Arabic metrics, was generally neither welcome nor taken seriously. But after years of introducing it in many forums , the limited number who studied it know its value . And they know the wealth they have. They know the general few rules that control Arabic prosody .different meters, feet, detailed description are but manifestations of those rules. Thus came the differentiation between prosody and the science of prosody. Prosody is one’s feeling of meters, and describing them each at a time. Feeling in itself means some sort of being aware of prosody/rhythm. That is the case of the child when reacting to mother’s singing. The science of prosody / metrics is the awareness of the necessity of the existence of general pan-meter rules that control all meters, and seeking to define them most probably in in mathematical abstract terms. Does this form ( anapest / iamb ) exisit in English ? It does, and the fourth an anapest followed by an iamb In the howling storm,= da da DUM da DUM = 1 1 2 1 2 This occurrence is occasional. That is, no meter is formed totally of the repetition of the combination of these two feet. In Arabic, This combination forms one foot. 1 1 2 1 2 = 1 1 2 3 ( 1 2 in iamb =3 ) The repetition six times of this combination forms the kamil meter. Let us consider these two flowers : What is the implication ? Wouldn't it be justifiable to speculate about nature having some sort of poetry/rhythm ? ************** The rest , editing and updating are on : https://sites.google...arative-metrics