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badger11

31.12.09

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badger11

Almost casual the way she comes to him,

the way her hands pillow the clouds, warming

the air, slipping the hook from bloody lips.

 

 

Time to unclothe he knows

and time to forgive,

and forget

those hands ticking,

itching

to scratch

her clockwork smile.

 

 

Wrapping him in her secret scent she glistens

whispers beyond the weeping willow,

a silver fish gliding her cool blue pool.

 

 

Like a small boy,

or dying fish,

he mouths the questions,

gulping the heated air, seeking

meaning in space,

until, within her golden pond, his eyes

are fried to white.

 

 

'Time to hope?' she smiles.

Edited by badger11

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dr_con

Badge,

 

Another remarkable and very surreal piece- filled with the kind of warmth/horror truth/lie you are well comfortable with- shocking and comforting all at the same moment as the hand ticks to midnight we all yell YAAAA!

 

beautifully and powerfully done,

 

Many Thanks,

 

DC


Join the Voodoo rEvolution. Classes forming now: http://www.integralvoodoo.org/

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JoelJosol

Surreal, indeed.

 

The mix analogy of a fish and the man, for me, is successful. Good one, badge.


"Words are not things, and yet they are not non-things either." - Ann Lauterbach

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Aleksandra

Yes, this is another amazing piece of poetry. I love the opening of the poem, and I loved this line a lot:

 

the way her hands pillow the clouds,
Badge, you have special way of expressing yourself in poetry. I love your way.

 

All the best wishes.

 

Aleksandra


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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badger11

Another remarkable and very surreal piece- filled with the kind of warmth/horror truth/lie you are well comfortable with- shocking and comforting all at the same moment as the hand ticks to midnight we all yell YAAAA!

 

Thanks DC. I can only accept what the poem wants to say. My personal belief will always be less realistic, but that's a matter of surviving.

 

cheers

 

badge

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badger11

Thanks JJ. Using imagery is risky, but fun - besides not to do so lacks ambition!

 

badge

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badger11

Aleks you are so sweet in your responses,

 

like sharing a glass of wine with a friend.

 

badge

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waxwings

I like the imagery. Very much so. Your longer lines occasionally make the poem ponderous, less happy than it seems in general/retrospect.

 

Some make me wish for stronger line breaks. You don't seem to be adverse to commas, and, for imaginative consistency, could use a few more to reveal the parallel prosody that shines for me.

 

Free versers say that when possible, syntagmatically, a line should end in a noun or verb (not always possible w/o breaking a syntagma), but gerunds--like "warming", in this case--that build an adverbial phrase might be best in same linbe as the rest of that phrase, as you have done in other lines.

 

Consider my quibbles as part of my manner for saying how much I enjoy a poem.

 

BTW, your European heritage seems to stick out in your title.

 

waxwings

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badger11
Your longer lines occasionally make the poem ponderous, less happy than it seems in general/retrospect.

 

Some make me wish for stronger line breaks.

 

hi WW

 

I think you have highlighted an underlying concern, which indicates that this attempt is still transitional. I think I buried my own doubts, but you have reinforced the feeling that this is still in its transitional stage. I'm too close for a major stylistic shift at this stage, but perhaps later in the year I shall review.

 

always appreciate your thoughts ww.

 

cheers

 

badge

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waxwings

HI, badge,

 

I am glad I did manage to spot a perhaps questionable (In my mind) 'feature' that somehow has managed to reflect your own concern/disquiet. If you could witness all my activities as a ?publisher's editor?, you might see that I have what many think is a special eye for catching some internal inconsistency in work even beautifully done otherwise. But you have already stated that you appreciate sincere and caring comments by others.

 

If you are game, I could make some suggetitve edits on any part. Do you dig the concept of a "syntagma"?

 

waxwings

Edited by waxwings

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tonyv

In addition to its obvious lyrical qualities, the way that the sensual elements which should imply pleasure (warming the air, her "secret scent," her "cool blue pool") are counterpointed with the more sinister ones (hook, bloody lips, forgive/forget, "clockwork smile," and "fried to white") is what makes the poem. I can relate to this one a lot: it works for me. The last line is especially painful in its irony. I loved it, Badge, and I think it's quite masterfully delivered.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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badger11
If you are game, I could make some suggetitve edits on any part. Do you dig the concept of a "syntagma"?

 

waxwings

 

 

I must admit I had to check the dictionary for that one WW!

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badger11

Many thanks Tony for your encouragement. I find that a tension in the writing sometimes delivers if the intention is not dogmatic and allows the words and subconscious some voice too. If that makes sense.

 

cheers

 

badge

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Tinker

Hi Badge, This poem touched me on an emotional level beyond my understanding. Your imagery was felt more than visualized and left me with conflicting feelings. The sonics of the piece were very seductive, sensual. I loved it.

 

~~Tink


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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goldenlangur

Hi badge,

 

Deft use of imagery and sonority make this a haunting read. This poem underlines how one need not necessarily get the poet's intent but the work can still touch and be a beauty to read.

 

 

Thank you.


goldenlangur

 

 

Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying.

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waxwings

I am perhaps still inept as to how to attach a reply of mine to a specific previous message. This is a followup on my question about 'syntagma. How do you interpret it? badge? Anyone?

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badger11
I am perhaps still inept as to how to attach a reply of mine to a specific previous message. This is a followup on my question about 'syntagma. How do you interpret it? badge? Anyone?

 

- 'sequence of words in a particular syntactic relationship to one another; a construction. '

 

or so the dictionary says. Perhaps you could elaborate my friend on your earlier point since I'm unsure of the issue.

 

badge

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badger11

Thank you Tink and gl. Poetry can communicate and be experienced in ways that can't always be rationalised. That's its beauty. Your responses say much about your own sensitivity, empathy, and knowledge of reading.

 

badge

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waxwings
I am perhaps still inept as to how to attach a reply of mine to a specific previous message. This is a followup on my question about 'syntagma. How do you interpret it? badge? Anyone?

 

- 'sequence of words in a particular syntactic relationship to one another; a construction. '

 

or so the dictionary says. Perhaps you could elaborate my friend on your earlier point since I'm unsure of the issue.

 

badge

 

I have heard much about the crucial role of 'appropriate' line breaks to the wellness of a poem.

 

Now I am musing on if a syntagma, i.e., any phrase/fragment of speech as described above, could serve as a model for the better poetic line.

 

I tend toward grammatical prosody, i.e., choose line breaks between any such fragment that expand what a single word that is a 'part of speech', i.e., subject, object, adjective or adverb would do.

 

I suppose, I should have gone to a section of this forum set aside for discussion, but your fine poem rekindled my curiosity re this complex subject.

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badger11

Rules are for communication. Rules provide a challenge to communication. 'warming' was placed in the line at that point for focus: to 'embrace' the space. I'm not sure if that justifies the rule breaking or not!

 

badge

Edited by badger11

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waxwings
Rules are for communication. Rules provide a challenge to communication. 'warming' was placed in the line at that point for focus: to 'embrace' the space. I'm not sure if that justifies the rule breaking or not!

 

badge

 

I am somewhat at sea why you mention rules. Is it because I touch on something that seems to be preoccupied w/grammar?

 

The term "prosody" refers to a study of (or the insight to) some system of versification. It is more likely that we are familiar with one such system which deals with metrication or with rhythm, stress and intonation of speech.

 

I first encountered the idea of "grammatical prosody" while reading Lewis Turco's "The Book of Forms". The idea is that--instead of being concerned with meter, rhyme stanza etc.--poetic composition can utilize certain linguistic structures to create verse, and I suppose he might have meant 'free verse', whatever that is, and possibly prose poems. (Today, it is fashionable to talk about "open form", while, to me, a form is a form and only so if it imposes some strictures

 

Of course, the notion--that we must not only learn but also 'understand' rules (whatever they are) before we break them--is widely enough accepted, and by pretending it is not so will not get you and I much attention by those who are likely to provide us with a chance to be paid/admired for our poems.

 

Rats! Our exchange could be really useful to many if it were in a discussion thread.

 

Would yo please, please elaborate on your concept of "embracing" the space, in your 2nd sentence above. Seems it has something I could learn from. BTW, what I say is not a reflection on your fine poem. I am not sure why your poem--or any part or feature of it--triggered my rant on what a "model line" might have to be like.

 

I really do appreciate musing re poetry and such.

Edited by waxwings

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badger11

Of course, the notion--that we must not only learn but also 'understand' rules (whatever they are) before we break them--is widely enough accepted, and by pretending it is not so will not get you and I much attention by those who are likely to provide us with a chance to be paid/admired for our poems.

 

Why? As one poet stated on another forum: he is trying to unlearn particular 'rules or systems', unshackle himself from the iambic drum, but the effort and time it is taking...he wished he never learnt 'the rules'.

 

 

Would yo please, please elaborate on your concept of "embracing" the space, in your 2nd sentence above. Seems it has something I could learn from. BTW, what I say is not a reflection on your fine poem. I am not sure why your poem--or any part or feature of it--triggered my rant on what a "model line" might have to be like.

A matter of using the space beyond the line, letting the action of the verb perform in that space. In this example I quite like the play between this notion and 'the air'.

 

many thanks for your time on this matter ww

 

badge

Edited by badger11

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tonyv
Poetry can communicate and be experienced in ways that can't always be rationalised.

I love the way you expressed this, Badge.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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waxwings
Of course, the notion--that we must not only learn but also 'understand' rules (whatever they are) before we break them--is widely enough accepted, and by pretending it is not so will not get you and I much attention by those who are likely to provide us with a chance to be paid/admired for our poems.

 

Why? As one poet stated on another forum: he is trying to unlearn particular 'rules or systems', unshackle himself from the iambic drum, but the effort and time it is taking...he wished he never learnt 'the rules'.

 

 

Would yo please, please elaborate on your concept of "embracing" the space, in your 2nd sentence above. Seems it has something I could learn from. BTW, what I say is not a reflection on your fine poem. I am not sure why your poem--or any part or feature of it--triggered my rant on what a "model line" might have to be like.

A matter of using the space beyond the line, letting the action of the verb perform in that space. In this example I quite like the play between this notion and 'the air'.

 

many thanks for your time on this matter ww

 

badge

 

Would you blindly follow slavishly any idea I offer. On many other forums you could visit you can find some would-be-poets who will try anything to be 'different', but modern painters did not, have not abandoned some sort of medium other than white paint, nor use colored matter w/o a substrate.

 

We have words instead of color, and grammar and semantics as the substrate to hold the words together. That seems like a workable system to me.

 

There are no 'rules', but there are proven by results 'techniques' for assembling words, i.e., effective writing.

 

What is more, each new direction is an attempt to create a NEW 'system' but only time can tell if it is worth the effort.

 

Even then, writing anything in English, even 'free verse' or 'open form', will tie one to the 'iambic drum' (an inherent tendency of English) though not as much as an actual meter. English does permit other meters than iambic, if done by someone who really knows the language and wants to be different.

 

Finally, I have 'learned the 'rules' but can avoid them because I have. That way, even though I may not be a honest to goodness poet, I will not blunder into using them unwittingly.

 

As for usig the 'space', that is a great idea, but how does one realize space (other than infinity) without borders?

 

Thanks for you thoughtful reply.

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badger11

Many thanks for your reply ww.

 

all the best

 

badge

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