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tonyv

The Ultramontane

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tonyv

Assembled in this place are the elect,
the representatives of lightened orders;
for soon these pious brothers will select
the one whose orbit won't be checked at borders.

But ever since the Vatican installed
a non-Italian in the Holy See,
it has been absolute that I'll be called

to be the One. Give heed to prophesy:
the masters of this world will exalt me.

_____________________
Ultramontanism


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Larsen M. Callirhoe

you amaze me tony. im more of a free thinker wilth light thoughts and im not one to copy many techniques. you have helped me learn to be a much better vastly improved write just by your knowledge of history of literature. tony i am a son a man now of the holy spirit that yeshua of natherith spokeof and about. i sleep very little most times.

 

this poem flowed and has a beat that is very steady. not completely musical tho your poem here follows the natural quality of a drummer or guitar player. im well versed in music i could have been the next pachobel or bach or bethoven. im really good at playing the paino. when i got hurt the first think that came to mind was i canno longer play the paino. i have taken singing lessons from 5 yers old till 19. ive played bells in church, ive played a synthesizer keyboard, a panio, a french horn and a trumpet. in school everyone thought i was going to be the next barry manilow or billy joel i went into the army and realized i don't want the karma of killing another human being. i studied lain in the military and i went to medical school and pharmacy school.

 

i have attended coollege at a university in broward county florida called broward community college. i took advanced science courses in astrology and astrony i studied astrollgy. i read sci fi literature, books on angels, name meanings, carl jung and pyschology. i studied sociology. i worked as a delivery driver attended church i cooked food at chillis and pizza hut. i was assissant manger at pizza hut. i embazzled 40,000 dollars from pizza hut. iwas a cook manager at chili's. i worked as a pizza maker at a fire oven resurant a very good challenge on back breaking work.

 

i have given away everything i own. my nephews have a laptop because of me. my dad reprogramed it of course. my iqis 139 one point away from genious lol. ive studied african literature i meditate on kunandi healing, crystal healing, hypnosis healing. i bought 4 medical cds that cover anatomy. pharmacy, surgery and general ailments. ive sstudied flowers amazing beauty i pllanted bird seeds amazing stuff someoone had a flower in a vase i gave a bird to scatter to and fro and know one knows the path of bird seeds but god. every month for to years i feed birds with bird seeds. something i ask everyone to do.

 

i am a light worker that only teaches love forgiveness and to not judge.

 

iwish economics and governmet in high school was aelective instead of corriculium..

 

tony. i want people to remember me or i would hold my tongue. my guardian angel says i have seven years left in this body and incarnation. i believe in reincarnation. i blieve in the trinity 1st john 5:7.

 

peace and blessings my friend. be blessed, blessed be.

 

victor


Larsen M. Callirhoe

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Aleksandra

Tony, this is one of my favorites from you, so far. I am so excited to read such a quality and provocative poem. I'll definitely look this one closer after I sleep :).

 

Now, goodnight from here :).

 

Aleksandra


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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waxwings
Assembled all at once are the elect,

the representatives of lightened orders;

for soon these pious brothers will select

the one whose orbit won't be checked at borders.

 

But ever since the Vatican installed

a non-Italian in the Holy See,

it's been ab*solute that I'll* be call*ed ~~~ pyrrhic, dactyl, iamb, iamb

 

to be the One. Give heed to prophesy:

the mas*ters of this world* will ex*alt me.

 

Ultramontanism

 

A very ambitious poem that succeds doing what I think you intended. Almost.

 

Mechanically, the flow/rhythm is right on except for the last line, and I'm sure you can fix it. I did have a temporary quarrel w/ L6 but re-reading several times, till I had grasped what you are saying (again almost), I 'saw' the caesura after "Italian", and that made it much better.

 

I have some logical objections.

 

1) "all at once" is not convincing, to me. Why not "in this/that place", i.e., the Vatican; "the elect", a plural, makes "all" superfluous.

2) I wonder what "absolute" stands for. Rhythmically, "it has been absolute that I'll be called" would be better, or "... is quite certain that I will be..."

3) Why the "I'll"/"me"? Are you a candidate? re Ortho: italics have standard aps., can confuse ; "I" is ok, but including the " 'll" is not.

4) The last line limps conceptually as well as rhythmically (small quibble that I'm sure is easily fixed). But who are "the masters"

 

'Footnotes are used in poems to explain a rare, special, foreign or exotic word, but only to clarify that word, not to add what the poem fails to tell. Your poem does not need that for it ts subject and theme are not alltogether mysterious.that you have included "non-Italian".

 

Nevertheless, I think you have written a mostly superb poem whose (I presume) draft stage just barely misses being superb in content as well as music, considering that it manages to encompass such a difficult subject. Where did you come up with all that!?

 

I have edited some of the above because it was not easy to do the poem justice and point out the minor slips in the time I had. I do have a question. In Latin (or so I thought) ultramontane means "above the highest" while the 'other side of the moumtains' is transmontane.

Edited by waxwings

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dr_con

Tony,

 

a sublime work- reflects your instinctual grasp of the nature of power, culture in an unusual subject (and yes I needed to read the wiki page) while remaining extremely simple- What is on the page is exactly what one is reading- no fireworks- rather plain and powerful direct speech...

 

Nice one!

 

DC&J


Join the Voodoo rEvolution. Classes forming now: http://www.integralvoodoo.org/

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tonyv

Thank you, Victor. I'm always interested to hear about your many life experiences. I'm glad the poem moved you. :)

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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tonyv
Tony, this is one of my favorites from you, so far. I am so excited to read such a quality and provocative poem. I'll definitely look this one closer after I sleep :).

 

Now, goodnight from here :).

 

Aleksandra

I know you like this one, Alek. As I told you, out of my recent endeavors, I personally like my "Pit" one better. But, as I explained, that may be because I have more of an emotional connection to the subject matter of that one. In any case, I'm anxious to read more of your thoughts on this one. So, be sure to get back to it quickly!

 

Tony :)


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Larsen M. Callirhoe

tony i looked up the suffix and prefix of the word. i think i disagree ith waxwings on the title of the poem. ultra means

1.

going beyond what is usual or ordinary; excessive; extreme. –noun 2. an extremist, as in politics, religion, fashion, etc..

 

 

since this poem is religious in overtone the word you used is correct.

 

 

im glad i remember this word from latin classes lol.

 

victor


Larsen M. Callirhoe

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tonyv

Thanks, Ikars, for the close look and considered comments. I'll address them in the order that they first appear.

 

Mechanically, the flow/rhythm is right on except for the last line, and I'm sure you can fix it. I did have a temporary quarrel w/ L6 but re-reading several times, till I had grasped what you are saying (again almost), I 'saw' the caesura after "Italian", and that made it much better.

I considered the rhythm of the last line carefully. Initially I had written "the masters of this world will worship me," but I ended up changing worship to "exalt." I did so for two reasons: (1) for a slightly different nuance, and (2) to vary the rhythm a bit. I expected this reaction because I like more the way it reads with "worship" than with "exalt." But, the line as it stands now is still unadulterated iambic pentameter:

 

/ the MAS / ters OF / this WORLD / { will ex / ALT ME / } /

 

/ iamb / iamb / iamb / { /pyrrhic + spondee = double iamb } /

 

I have some logical objections.

 

1) "all at once" is not convincing, to me. Why not "in this/that place", i.e., the Vatican; "the elect", a plural, makes "all" superfluous.

Yes, I agree. What I had when I first posted the poem was even worse. I had written "assembled in a group are the elect." Of course, groups are assembled! I hurriedly changed it to "assembled all at once are the elect." And, by "all at once," I meant "now" or "immediately." But I see now how it might be a colloquialism not readily apparent to all readers. As I hate redundancy, I'll adopt your suggestion so that the first line will read "assembled in this place are the elect."

 

2) I wonder what "absolute" stands for. Rhythmically, "it has been absolute that I'll be called" would be better, or "... is quite certain that I will be..."

Originally I had some variation as you propose using the word "certain." I changed it to "absolute" to make it sound more forceful, as if what is to happen has been predetermined my some deity, an "absolute" ruler of sorts or by some law of the universe. I'll keep "absolute," but I'll lose the contraction, as you suggested.

 

3) Why the "I'll"/"me"? Are you a candidate? re Ortho: italics have standard aps., can confuse ; "I" is ok, but including the " 'll" is not.

Yes. The speaker is indeed a candidate. I adopted your suggestion and removed the italics around the contraction "I'll." I think I wanted to show a stress there because the line limped a bit when I had "it's" instead of "it has." But now that that's been changed to the latter, the line reads better, and I no longer see it as necessary to italicize for the purpose of indicating a stress.

 

4) The last line limps conceptually as well as rhythmically (small quibble that I'm sure is easily fixed). But who are "the masters"

I addressed the matter of the last line above. But I'll leave it to the reader to calculate who the "masters" may be. I wanted it to impart the same sense one gets when he reads "Let him who have understanding reckon the number of the beast." I wanted some aspect of the poem to be shrouded in a bit of mystery, and I don't want to give away all the mystery.

 

'Footnotes are used in poems to explain a rare, special, foreign or exotic word, but only to clarify that word, not to add what the poem fails to tell. Your poem does not need that for it ts subject and theme are not alltogether mysterious.that you have included "non-Italian".

I included the footnote only for reference to a potentially interesting subject.

 

Nevertheless, I think you have written a mostly superb poem whose (I presume) draft stage just barely misses being superb in content as well as music, considering that it manages to encompass such a difficult subject. Where did you come up with all that!?

I'm not sure exactly how I came up with it. It started with only a few lines (L5 & L6), and I built the rest of the poem around those lines. As for the subject matter, I may have been reading some political treatises which skimmed upon the issue.

 

I have edited some of the above because it was not easy to do the poem justice and point out the minor slips in the time I had. I do have a question. In Latin (or so I thought) ultramontane means "above the highest" while the 'other side of the moumtains' is transmontane.

I don't know Latin. I just know that in my English dictionary "ultramontane," when used as a noun, is defined as "one who lives beyond the mountains." If, in Latin, it means "above the highest," the double meaning for those who pick up on it should be even more ironical, sinister even.

 

Thank you, again. I believe the poem has been improved.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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tonyv
tony i looked up the suffix and prefix of the word. i think i disagree ith waxwings on the title of the poem. ultra means

1.

going beyond what is usual or ordinary; excessive; extreme. –noun 2. an extremist, as in politics, religion, fashion, etc..

 

 

since this poem is religious in overtone the word you used is correct.

 

 

im glad i remember this word from latin classes lol.

 

victor

You beat me to it, Victor. :) I finished my reply to Ikars, and I address the point he raises therein (post #8).

 

Thanks for coming back to it.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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tonyv
Tony,

 

a sublime work- reflects your instinctual grasp of the nature of power, culture in an unusual subject (and yes I needed to read the wiki page) while remaining extremely simple- What is on the page is exactly what one is reading- no fireworks- rather plain and powerful direct speech...

 

Nice one!

 

DC&J

Thank you, Juris. I rather thought you would appreciate this one. I'm glad you got it.

 

Tony :)


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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dedalus

Hi Tony,

 

The phrasing and structure were impressive, as we have generally come to expect from your poems, but what I liked particularly was the sly dig at "Ratsy", as he is none-too affectionately known, who seems to take the "infallibility" tag in his job description a little more seriously than his brain warrants. He is by no means an arrogant or bad man, but his previous post as Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the "Sacred Congregaton of the Holy Office," the historical Inquisition, has left him open to charges of aiding and abetting the coverup of sexual abuses by Catholic clergy: In his capacity as Prefect, Ratzinger's 2001 letter "De delictis gravioribus" which clarified the confidentiality of internal Church investigations, as defined in the 1962 document "Crimen Sollicitationis", into accusations made against priests of certain crimes, including sexual abuse, became a target of controversy during the sex abuse scandal. While bishops hold the secrecy pertained only internally, and did not preclude investigation by civil law enforcement, the letter was often seen as promoting a coverup. The Pope was accused in a lawsuit of conspiring to cover up the molestation of three boys in Texas, but sought and obtained diplomatic immunity from prosecution.

 

Brendan


Drown your sorrows in drink, by all means, but the real sorrows can swim

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Aleksandra
Assembled in this place are the elect,

the representatives of lightened orders;

for soon these pious brothers will select

the one whose orbit won't be checked at borders.

 

But ever since the Vatican installed

a non-Italian in the Holy See,

it has been absolute that I'll be called

 

to be the One. Give heed to prophesy:

the masters of this world will exalt me.

 

Tony, hi. After I read the raw part of this poem already I knew that this is going to be a perfect poem. I still can not sublime my feelings when I read this poem. I feel it, and I am in love with provocative poems, as this one. The subject is one of those subjects where you are one of the best, and there is no wonder here how you wrote this poem.

To me it gives an image of a secret meeting of a masonic group or of the eternal appetites of human beings. The facts and the truth are right there in your poem. Your title is a strapline.

 

And yes, this poem is one of your best, IMO.

 

Aleksandra


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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tonyv
Hi Tony,

 

The phrasing and structure were impressive, as we have generally come to expect from your poems, but what I liked particularly was the sly dig at "Ratsy", as he is none-too affectionately known, who seems to take the "infallibility" tag in his job description a little more seriously than his brain warrants. He is by no means an arrogant or bad man, but his previous post as Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the "Sacred Congregaton of the Holy Office," the historical Inquisition, has left him open to charges of aiding and abetting the coverup of sexual abuses by Catholic clergy: In his capacity as Prefect, Ratzinger's 2001 letter "De delictis gravioribus" which clarified the confidentiality of internal Church investigations, as defined in the 1962 document "Crimen Sollicitationis", into accusations made against priests of certain crimes, including sexual abuse, became a target of controversy during the sex abuse scandal. While bishops hold the secrecy pertained only internally, and did not preclude investigation by civil law enforcement, the letter was often seen as promoting a coverup. The Pope was accused in a lawsuit of conspiring to cover up the molestation of three boys in Texas, but sought and obtained diplomatic immunity from prosecution.

 

Brendan

Thank you, Brendan. I figured you would get a kick out of this one. And yes, he is certainly a papa ultramontano, perhaps even the epitome of a subtler context.

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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tonyv
Tony, hi. After I read the raw part of this poem already I knew that this is going to be a perfect poem. I still can not sublime my feelings when I read this poem. I feel it, and I am in love with provocative poems, as this one. The subject is one of those subjects where you are one of the best, and there is no wonder here how you wrote this poem.

To me it gives an image of a secret meeting of a masonic group or of the eternal appetites of human beings. The facts and the truth are right there in your poem. Your title is a strapline.

 

And yes, this poem is one of your best, IMO.

 

Aleksandra

Alek, I was convinced you found the poem's subject more intriguing than the poem itself, but here you say you love poems with subjects like this one. As much as this poem is not one of my favorites, I'm still excited that it works for you and some others. Thank you!

 

Tony


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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