Poetry & The Rest

[waxwings]

Gatherings of artists—this forum is that, definitely—that I have had the privilege to be a part of, have been of great value for me, mostly via conversation not only about their art but also about art in general, insofar as it affects their work.

 

I hope many, if not all of you, agree that we should have them, proof being the several discussion topics on record.

 

I desire to start one to hear what topics/subtopics we could discuss at some greater or lesser extent.

 

I hope many, if not all will participate as much as your time constraints permit. Some many may think they have nothing of value to contribute, but my experience shows a question or idea that one may think impertinent may be of immeasurable importance to someone else. So, don’t be shy and join in.

 

It should be agreed that no expertise is essential. I do not claim one.

 

It is important to first set a framework that is of interest to most participants. It is up to you to provide ideas for it.

 

There should be, at least at the start, simple, compact questions/ideas/notions which we can handle easily and expand on them as needed/desired.

 

One such question: is poetry or any art truly definable, and if not, how is it identified or described.

 

Another question: is a division of arts into performing, representative and literary sufficient and acceptable, do we need to draw sharp distinctions and, if so, how.

Edited January 15, 2011 by waxwings

[Tinker]

Hi Ike, You have posted some interesting questions and they probably should be separated, each into its own thread.

 

The Question

is poetry or any art truly definable, and if not, how is it identified or described?

has probably been asked in every introduction to poetry classroom and text and there are a kajillion quotes defining poetry. One of my favorites is Robert Frost's poetry is "a way of remembering what it would impoverish us to forget,".

 

I took an online course a couple of years ago that assigned Journalizing as an exercise and the first thing we were to write each day was a definition of poetry as we viewed it in that moment. I found that exercise enlightening because my own definitions changed day by day.

 

It might be fun to create a thread of definitions of poetry, both by famous poets as well as our own. They can be added as we come across a great quote or when we ourselves write a definition as we view poetry in that moment. The thread could become endless.

 

~~Tink

[tonyv]

Hello Ikars,

 

Good idea for a topic.

 

I desire to start one to hear what topics/subtopics we could discuss ...

And that's what this Literary Discussion forum is for. This topic is a good place for suggestions, perhaps a list, so I'll pin the topic to the top for a while. But after that, it's up to the members to take ideas and actually make topics. I've made a few myself in the past, so I know it can be a bit of work. (Not that I'm afraid of that! :icon_razz: )

 

One such question: is poetry or any art truly definable, and if not, how is it identified or described.

Though there's always a bit of "I know it when I see it" inherent in the realm of the subjective, I think enthusiasts will often strive to reach a consensus -- dare I say set standards? -- when it comes to recognizing "art" and what constitutes "good" art.

 

I like the Wikipedia definition of poetry:

 

"Poetry ... is a form of literary art in which language is used for its aesthetic and evocative qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its apparent meaning."

 

I'm sure there are many other definitions, but I myself subscribe to this one.

 

Another question: is a division of arts into performing, representative and literary sufficient and acceptable, do we need to draw sharp distinctions and, if so, how.

This itself is a good idea for a discussion. I read you before you edited this topic, and you had written about art/poetry and its medium or "substrate," so I hope you'll say some more about that. (I might even start a topic about that one.) And I hope others chime in, too.

 

Tony

[Larsen M. Callirhoe]

tink you brought up a interesting point. write a definition of poerty everyday for a set amount of time. i would try to improve my first definition with longer sentences and more divrse larger grammer lettered words till no one understands me than i would make the definition of poetry be simple.

 

Poerty is written words telling a tale using the writers experiences, memories, feelings, and emotions to enchant and entice others.

 

victor

[waxwings]

I share your experiences, tink, but , being something of a pedant , if only limited to few ideass, I say all that you and I have heard are descriptions, including similes and metaphors, while a definition is the kind of information that, if understood, lets you duplicate or, somehow, depict the item defined.

 

I am quite satisfied with bejillion descriptions. If enough more are written, one may turn out to bethe 'definition' I am pointing to. Then we wil have poetsmade by some fancy new electronico-mechanical gismo, and simple poets like us will not be needed.

 

As for splitting off other discussion threads, that may very well be the thing to do, but I am hoping for some bigger concept to jell out of the simpler notions. The simpler notions may be conquerable, bu the bigger one may not, but may come to be better understood anyway.

 

Hope is the mother of fools and I are one. Thanks for coming in.

Edited January 16, 2011 by waxwings

[waxwings]

tink you brought up a interesting point. write a definition of poerty everyday for a set amount of time. i would try to improve my first definition with longer sentences and more divrse larger grammer lettered words till no one understands me than i would make the definition of poetry be simple.

 

Poerty is written words telling a tale using the writers experiences, memories, feelings, and emotions to enchant and entice others.

 

victor

 

That is very good. Please check my response to tink, so that I do not have to repeat myself more often than is absolutely needed. I am hoping others at least visit to read various posts in this topic, because only that way we will get ideas to shape and reshape it as begins to seem fruitful for all.

 

Thanks for jumping in. Please note that your description is somewhat like what tonyv admires, something that he took from the Vickipedia. Yours looks like the result of your own heads-up cogitating brain. Fab, man!

[waxwings]

Thanks, tinker, tony and Lars (or is it Victor? and I am getting old)

 

As I suggested to ?Lars(en. V), I hope al visit and read what has been said. Remember, a discussion is not a debate. This should be a gathering of things heard and ideas generated by each one of geniuses, to be hopefully blended into atrue though nebulous (not sayable in 5 -15 or therebout words)

 

I got this somewhere but it is not a true quote, for I am too independent a cuss to not alter good stuff to my liking though I never add ehat is not somehow already there.

 

Poetry is the art created by linking everyday words in such a way that the rationality and the emotion and the aesthetic of a thing, object , person or event can be quite fully shared/experienced by others.

 

That is quite a mouthful and probably comes near to a summary of the best (to me) of all descriptions of poetry.

Mind you, as I responded to lovely tink, this is not what a well read person would dub a 'definition' but is probably better than one.

 

And I do think it would hurt what I have been, for years, hoping to help accomplish, if we were to split of othersimpler threads, or split this one. I think it would be better to wait and see, because, for one, jumping too far between views is likely to have some of the realizations to be transferree incompletely and in aat least skightly crippled form.

 

I will keep on coming in with periodic recaps and/or summaries, so even jumping between views within this thread is less likely to harm my hoped for result, one I think will be useful to many.

[Larsen M. Callirhoe]

i hope you are well ikars.

 

and you can call me victor.

 

you want a definition so to say for describing poetry. i agree wih your statement wholeheartedly. as for mine i might add another two sentences to my mention description a few posts prior.

 

you wrote ikars;

 

"Poetry is the art created by linking everyday words in such a way that the rationality and the emotion and the aesthetic of a thing, object , person or event can be quite fully shared/experienced by others."

 

i agree with your desription of defining poetry ikars. i might end your response ikars with these words for definition of poetry "thru visualizing the imagery of words in a setting environment."

 

so i would add these words to the end of your definition. you may not like this ikars? i will delete this post if it is in bad taste my friend.

 

"Poetry is the art created by linking everyday words in such a way that the rationality and the emotion and the aesthetic of a thing, object , person or event can be quite fully shared/experienced by others thru visualizing the imagery of words in a setting environment.".

 

i really dig your words waxwings. peace amigo!!!

 

victor