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tonyv

The Coast

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tonyv

From rubdowns at The Orchid to the coast --
it's time to drive this dirty week away.
Let Steffi check our coats where Vin's our host
on Greek night at the waterside cafe.
With moonroof open and for each some blow,
we got our buzz on start the car let's go.


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tonyv

Okay poetry lovers and experts. You tell me why this poem is any worse than Robert Frost's beloved poem "The Pasture."


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Tinker
2 hours ago, tonyv said:

Okay poetry lovers and experts. You tell me why this poem is any worse than Robert Frost's beloved poem "The Pasture."

 

This is up temporarily to give me a chance to read and compare /

I'm going out to clean the pasture spring; 

I'll only stop to rake the leaves away 

(And wait to watch the water clear, I may): 

I sha'n't be gone long.—You come too. 

 

I'm going out to fetch the little calf 

That's standing by the mother. It's so young, 

It totters when she licks it with her tongue. 

I sha'n't be gone long.—You come too. 


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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tonyv

Judi, you posted the Frost poem, for comparison I presume, but then hid the post. :huh:But anyway, I don't expect that anyone will take this poem seriously. I think I'll park this topic in the Playground. :biggrin:


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Tinker

I did hide it and lost it.  And yes I wanted to do a comparison but never got to it.  i’m traveling north today, We’ve been on the road 5 hours because of the conditions and have only completed 1/3 of the trip.  Snow on the Grapevine, 2 accidents, 5 mile an hour sections, now in super windy rain and lots of tail lights.  Trinity is driving.  

Any way both poems are iambic pentameter and rhymed, Coast is a hexastich with rhyme ababcc. Pasture 2 quatrains,, rhyme xaaB xccB written with refrain.. The rhythm of both has a easy flow.  Coast is a slice of life, very human.  Pasture is a natural setting.still human.  

OMG, we are crawling. I’ll come back i think there is another accident,

~~Judi


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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A. Baez
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Okay poetry lovers and experts. You tell me why this poem is any worse than Robert Frost's beloved poem "The Pasture."

Leaving aside "better" and "worse," the big differences I see are that Frost's poem feels much more universal, lyrical, and innocent. I leave Frost's poem feeling enchanted and uplifted; I leave yours feeling like retching. And of course, your poem is two lines shorter. In yours, there's no refrain, which is one element that makes Frost's poem lyrical. Technically, both are, arguably, equally matched, though I was wondering why you didn't put quotes around "start the car let's go."

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tonyv

Judi and A. Baez, thank you for taking a look at this. You've both brought up technical points I had hoped would come up. While my form was never meant to be a copy of Frost's, I would suggest that the two are very similar. Both are short. Each has a title of equal relevance to its poem, and each uses/mentions/repeats the title within the body of its respective poem. Yes, Frost's poem technically has two more lines, but I would posit that since one is a refrain, it actually has only one additional line of substance. Both poems are invitiations.

1 hour ago, A. Baez said:

I leave yours feeling like retching.

That's an unexpected reaction ... at least at the beginning of the night out! 😲 I wanted the poem to appeal in a TGIF/welcome-to-the-weekend, fresh from the massage parlor/barbershop/salon let's hit the club it's time to party kind of way. I dunno A. Baez, maybe we both need to get on the Acela and meet somewhere in the middle -- the Jersey shore perhaps? -- for some good times. 🥂

In any case, thank you both for playing, for participating in my fun little Playground topic.

Tony :-8)


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A. Baez
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That's an unexpected reaction ... at least at the beginning of the night out!

The commonalities between the poems illustrate how similar two things can be in technicalities and still be fundamentally leagues apart. As for my retching, it was the final "blow" that really blew it for me, although "rubdowns at the Orchid" distinctly evoked sex massage parlors to me. Beyond that, I've always strived to love my whole life enough that I just don't feel a need to drive away any "dirt" at week's end. I'm a self-employed gardener; I love my work and its wholesome dirt 😊, so the kind of escapism you evoke feels dark, desperate, decadent, hollow, and depraved to me. Now, I might well feel differently if my livelihood involved something like reading statutes, legal briefs, and court orders. 😉 I do remember the days of oppressive-feeling work and how busting loose (in my own, more restrained way) in my free time felt like liberation.

Quote

I dunno A. Baez, maybe we both need to get on the Acela and meet somewhere in the middle -- the Jersey shore perhaps? -- for some good times. 🥂

Well, my idea of a good time is more along the lines of having a long conversation over a cup of tea or strolling through woods and gardens. Perhaps a figurative meeting in the middle would be simply eating at a nice, unpretentious restaurant. I'm open to negotiation. 🍵

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dr_con

When I first read this (Before the move) I laughed out loud with sheer delight -- Not certain why one should not take this seriously -- Its a light hearted piece that captures something quite real (without the implications of egregious wealth) I thought to myself Ah yes I remember that! With Title being an unexplored country filled with wired beauty and mystery and god knows what else. Both The Coast and The Pasture evoke a sense of place, but unlike Frost, you don't resort to the cheap (Well that's unfair, if its cheap I embrace it fully) 'Why don't you come along' which works for those in a mood for childhood, but not for those who want to embrace a more adult childhood unlike your poem which (To me) invokes my young adult /childhood without resorting to invitation;-)

 

Juris


Gate(less.thumb.png.dc23b19d2478d37a9f6fcdc563973026.pnghttps://conjurd.substack.com/welcome Come on over and check out my poetry substack y'all;-)

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Tinker
11 hours ago, A. Baez said:

as for my retching, it was the final "blow" that really blew it for me, although "rubdowns at the Orchid" distinctly evoked sex massage parlors to me. Beyond that, I've always strived to love my whole life enough that I just don't feel a need to drive away any "dirt" at week's end.

I have to admit Tony, I had a similar reaction to exactly the some images as A.B., maybe not retching but cringing a little and didn't want to address that.  I was trying to be objective so I went directly to the technical elements of the poem.  Actually though the content felt uncomfortable it was communicated well and was actually more interesting than most more comfortable and generic encounters.  It is a poem, and they aren't always feel good.  They are meant to take us to new places. 

~~Tink  


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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tonyv

Hi again A. Baez,

On 12/2/2019 at 1:15 AM, A. Baez said:

... so the kind of escapism you evoke feels dark, desperate, decadent, hollow, and depraved to me ...

Feels normal to me. :blush:

On 12/2/2019 at 1:15 AM, A. Baez said:

Now, I might well feel differently if my livelihood involved something like reading statutes, legal briefs, and court orders.

Thankfully, that has been only a hobby for me. 

As always, I appreciate the interaction,

Tony 


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tonyv

Juris, I appreciate your stoppping by.

20 hours ago, dr_con said:

When I first read this (Before the move) I laughed out loud with sheer delight -- Not certain why one should not take this seriously -- Its a light hearted piece that captures something quite real (without the implications of egregious wealth) I thought to myself Ah yes I remember that! With Title being an unexplored country filled with wired beauty and mystery and god knows what else. Both The Coast and The Pasture evoke a sense of place, but unlike Frost, you don't resort to the cheap (Well that's unfair, if its cheap I embrace it fully) 'Why don't you come along' which works for those in a mood for childhood, but not for those who want to embrace a more adult childhood unlike your poem which (To me) invokes my young adult /childhood without resorting to invitation;-)

 

Juris

Those were (are?) good times. The thing is, it's possible some of us haven't outgrown it. :blush:

Tony 😄


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tonyv
14 hours ago, Tinker said:

I have to admit Tony, I had a similar reaction to exactly the some images as A.B., maybe not retching but cringing a little and didn't want to address that.  I was trying to be objective so I went directly to the technical elements of the poem.  Actually though the content felt uncomfortable it was communicated well and was actually more interesting than most more comfortable and generic encounters.  It is a poem, and they aren't always feel good.  They are meant to take us to new places. 

~~Tink  

Judi, I thought so much, but there is always that enjoyable awkwardness when someone keeps nagging, "But what about the narrative, the content?!?" :rolleyes:Thank you for being a good sport about it.

Tony 😀


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Tinker

 

1 minute ago, tonyv said:

Thank you for being a good sport about it.

Haha, I thought about it and at first thought, it was my "feminine" reaction to the poem.  Then I thought, no it was my "old lady, grandma" reaction.

~~Judi


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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tonyv

LOL Judi, it was just your reaction to the uniquely male perspective. 😉 :laugh:


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A. Baez
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On 12/2/2019 at 1:15 AM, A. Baez said:

... so the kind of escapism you evoke feels dark, desperate, decadent, hollow, and depraved to me ...

Feels normal to me.

I have to admit, it's pretty shocking to me that someone as serious about the art and craft of poetry as you are, could have, and be able to sustain, this side, as well. Just wow. 

Quote
On 12/2/2019 at 1:15 AM, A. Baez said:

Now, I might well feel differently if my livelihood involved something like reading statutes, legal briefs, and court orders.

Thankfully, that has been only a hobby for me. 

A hobby?? Wow! As if poetry weren't toilsome enough. 😉

Oh by the way, I just recognized today the double entendre in your words "the coast." The poem really does describe a state of coasting! I'm not sure if you intended this, but it's nice.

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Tinker

The Coast

From rubdowns at The Orchid to the coast --                                   
it's time to drive this dirty week away.
Let Steffi check our coats where Vin's our host
on Greek night at the waterside cafe.
With moonroof open and for each some blow,
we got our buzz on start the car let's go.
                                     ~~Tõnis Veenpere

 

 

The Pasture  

I'm going out to clean the pasture spring;
I'll only stop to rake the leaves away
(And wait to watch the water clear, I may):
I sha'n't be gone long.—You come too.

I'm going out to fetch the little calf
That's standing by the mother. It's so young,
It totters when she licks it with her tongue.
I sha'n't be gone long.—You come too.
                                                 ~~Robert Frost

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 8:24 PM, tonyv said:

tell me why this poem is any worse than Robert Frost's beloved poem "The Pasture."

Ok to your question as asked.  Any worse?  Neither are worse, they are both polished pieces.    Which is better, should be the question.   And the answer is, for me, it is a matter of taste.   

The Coast is short and the sounds harsh.  It has almost a rushed feel, like, "lets get it done".  The best lines for me were

 

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 8:23 PM, tonyv said:

Let Steffi check our coats where Vin's our host
on Greek night at the waterside cafe.

They felt natural and inviting. Shouldn't Waterside Café be capped?  Or was the lower case deliberate?  Steffi and Vin are capped are you showing importance to the employees and down playing the café itself?   Classy joint with a coat check and host.  Is the food good? 

The next line stopped me, the hard sound of "blow" almost felt as if it were placed there to shock me and my desire to continue ended. (And I am not naïve, though I have never felt the desire to use or even try, I lived through my husband's enchantment with the drug and it was a nightmare. It almost broke up our marriage. I get uncomfortable any time a see or hear drug use referred to in a light or acceptable vein.  See we do bring our baggage to what we read. I've seen too much destruction up close and personal. ) Admittedly, the poem at first was uncomfortable to read.  However, now that I have read this a few times, it is growing on me.  I wouldn't have come back to it if the discussion thread in Part II hadn't brought me here.  

The poem is current, it describes what many would consider a normal Friday night for singles in a city and is well crafted. (Although I wonder if there should be a comma after "buzz on," .}    I'm not young, single or a city dweller, I have no connection to the scenario and the poem doesn't draw me there, taste, circumstance and timing.

In contrast, the Frost poem, to me, is charming.  The more I read it the more I like it and totally relate.  It describes normal activity on a farm or rural homestead.  Raking leaves stopping up a stream, stuff like that just needs to get done in the normal scheme of things.  And the sweet calf, so cute, gives me a warm feeling.  "You come too" repeated, I'm in, just give me time to pull on my boots.

The Coast is no worse, nor better than Frost's The Pasture.  They are both well crafted lyrical pieces. 

~~Judi


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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A. Baez

I love the side-by-side presentation of the two poems for easy comparison.

You're right, the two lines you like the best actually can be perceived as natural and inviting--at least when taken out of context. I'd experienced them under the smear of the rest of the poem, and in that light, even those images struck me as sleazy and hedonistic.

I took the "waterside cafe" to be used as a general term, as well it could. I took the "buzz on" line to mean that they got the buzz as soon as they started the car, like "you had me at 'hello'." For me, what's unclear here is that "Start the car let's go" is not in quotes, as I'd mentioned before. (I can let the lack of normal punctuation after "car" slide because it does create a sense of sloppy speed that's in keeping with the rest of the poem.)

I do consider Frost's poem somewhat better--because I think that all the things you and I have pointed out actually count for something when it comes to judging the quality of a poem.

Otherwise, I really second all your comments--very  well expressed.

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Tinker

AB  👍  I wasn't uncomfortable because I thought this poem sleazy, I didn't. The "rubdown at the Orchid" was guy talk that I kind of dismissed.  Part II, however, stepped over that line.  It was the drug reference in this poem that jarred me.    

To me "we got our buzz on" was an extension of "for each some blow," referring to the high from the drug.  We all read bring something to a poem.

~~Judi


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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A. Baez

You're lucky to be made of thicker stuff than I! And I can see now how you interpreted "we got our buzz on." That actually probably makes more sense!

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A. Baez

Ah, that explains much! 😃

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tonyv

I mean, seriously! You don't want to party? What's the matter with you?!? 

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Wild Nights – Wild Nights!
Were I with thee
Wild Nights should be
Our luxury!

Futile – the winds –
To a heart in port –
Done with the compass –
Done with the chart!

Rowing in Eden –
Ah, the sea!
Might I moor – Tonight –
In thee!

                       --Emily Dickinson

 

^^^What is this rubbish?!?!? I mean, when you have "The Coast" (Part I, Part II, & Part III)...

Ola ola e

 

 


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