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badger11

Mrs Shakespeare Plots (revision2)

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A. Baez

Tony, yes, unfortunately, Sonnet Central went dormant recently (soon after I began participating again after a lapse of many years), and I still haven't submitted the requisite amount of critiques at Eratosphere to become a fully participating member. In the meantime, I've had an itch to share (instant gratification compulsion)--hence my presence here! I'm happy that chance brought me to these shores, as I've been exposed to many new ways of seeing and being in poetry. 😀

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tonyv
2 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

In the meantime, I've had an itch to share (instant gratification compulsion)--hence my presence here! I'm happy that chance brought me to these shores, as I've been exposed to many new ways of seeing and being in poetry.

Judi's been trying to get me to activate the LIKE button for some time now, but so far I haven't. Can't have that instant gratification be too easy to come by; we need to write, not just click for it! In any case, welcome home. :happy:


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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A. Baez

I've been thinking that some of the purposes that Judi (and I) would like that button for could be served if there were such a thing as a "Seen" button. It would be nice if there were a mechanism to indicate that one had seen another's comment even if one didn't feel the need to respond to it and/or wished to avoid bumping up a thread that one might not wish to bump up. However, I imagine that you have to work within the existing parameters of this platform and so would not be able to do a deep tweak like that. As far as the other main use that a "Like" button would serve here, to indicate approval of a poem (or a comment on it), I think it must be conceded that some of the comments that are generated here as a result of that button's lack are scarcely more substantive than a "Like" symbol would be. In other words, people will be people. I see your perspective, but I'm skeptical about how much negative fallout there actually would be from implementing a "Like" button. Why not give it a trial run of a couple weeks and see how it goes? You could always sack it if you found the results unsatisfactory.

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tonyv
3 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I've been thinking that some of the purposes that Judi (and I) would like that button for could be served if there were such a thing as a "Seen" button. It would be nice if there were a mechanism to indicate that one had seen another's comment even if one didn't feel the need to respond to it and/or wished to avoid bumping up a thread that one might not wish to bump up. However, I imagine that you have to work within the existing parameters of this platform and so would not be able to do a deep tweak like that. As far as the other main use that a "Like" button would serve here, to indicate approval of a poem (or a comment on it), I think it must be conceded that some of the comments that are generated here as a result of that button's lack are scarcely more substantive than a "Like" symbol would be. In other words, people will be people. I see your perspective, but I'm skeptical about how much negative fallout there actually would be from implementing a "Like" button. Why not give it a trial run of a couple weeks and see how it goes? You could always sack it if you found the results unsatisfactory.

I used to have an add-on that showed, at the bottom, who had visited a topic, but as cool as that was, I got rid of it a long time ago. It was made by a third-party developer, and I prefer to go all stock on the software; it gets updated often, and the third-party stuff is a pita when the developers don't keep up.

The available reactions are LIKE, CONFUSED, SAD, and THANKS. It's a package. I like your analysis and recommendation, so I'll go with it. Consider it done. It shouldn't stop anyone who wants to write from writing. I will continue to write, even if I also click like or thanks.

Phil, sorry for having this discussion here in your topic, but at least it's keeping it bumped to the top. 😉

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tonyv

@Tinker, if you're out there, if the internet is still working in CA, the women got their way on this one. Reactions enabled (finally). 😏

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tonyv
41 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I've been thinking that some of the purposes that Judi (and I) would like that button for could be served if there were such a thing as a "Seen" button. It would be nice if there were a mechanism to indicate that one had seen another's comment even if one didn't feel the need to respond to it and/or wished to avoid bumping up a thread that one might not wish to bump up. However, I imagine that you have to work within the existing parameters of this platform and so would not be able to do a deep tweak like that. As far as the other main use that a "Like" button would serve here, to indicate approval of a poem (or a comment on it), I think it must be conceded that some of the comments that are generated here as a result of that button's lack are scarcely more substantive than a "Like" symbol would be. In other words, people will be people. I see your perspective, but I'm skeptical about how much negative fallout there actually would be from implementing a "Like" button. Why not give it a trial run of a couple weeks and see how it goes? You could always sack it if you found the results unsatisfactory.

Wait a minute ... I gave you a "Thanks" on this one. Changing it to a "Like." You can give me a "Thanks." 😄

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tonyv

Just look at your reputation, Ms. Baez. It has skyrocketed:

rep.jpg

(Sorry, Phil ... will clean this off topic stuff up, move it to a misc topic soon.)


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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A. Baez
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I used to have an add-on that showed, at the bottom, who had visited a topic, but as cool as that was, I got rid of it a long time ago. It was made by a third-party developer, and I prefer to go all stock on the software; it gets updated often, and the third-party stuff is a pita when the developers don't keep up.

That makes sense; kudos for having given it a try.

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I like your analysis and recommendation, so I'll go with it. Consider it done.

Awesome--that makes me happy, and I hope it goes well! It's kind of odd the choices that they give us, though. We're allowed to express sadness and confusion but not happiness or anger or worry! It will be interesting to see if people's spontaneous reactions naturally narrow to fit the allowable parameters.;) Incidentally, I noticed that on my Android, I can see the emoticon button but I don't actually have access to the emoticons. I wonder if you could remedy this?

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I will continue to write, even if I also click like or thanks.

Me, too--if anything, I expect that the new options will increase the overall bulk of my responses.

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Just look at your reputation, Ms. Baez. It has skyrocketed:

Oh my goodness, now I have a reputation to worry about! Up to 2 since your post! Now I really better behave...

So, back to the original topic here, other than the increased sonnet-like quality of Phil's latest revision that you noted, do you feel that this latest version represents a net improvement, or a deterioration, over the previous version? Do you feel that it shows increased clarity and/or linearity? If so, do you feel that this/these quality/ies work/s to its detriment--or not? Do you feel that in this latest version, you are being patronizingly, controllingly led from point to point without enough free range given to your imagination?

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A. Baez

Phil, I can't help but wonder about your new title--Mrs. Shakespeare, really?! Do you think the Bard was that kind of a guy??!! 🤣

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tonyv
28 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

We're allowed to express sadness and confusion but not happiness or anger or worry!

All of them should work -- at least they do on mine: thanks, laughing, confused, sad, and like.

28 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I noticed that on my Android, I can see the emoticon button but I don't actually have access to the emoticons. I wonder if you could remedy this?

You mean for the smilies or for these newly-enabled reactions? I'm a BlackBerry 10 diehard, and even on my ca. 2013 BlackBerry's browser, this stuff is still working, not greatly, but it's functional and gets the job done.

28 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Me, too--if anything, I expect that the new options will increase the overall bulk of my responses.

I'm thinking the same thing.

28 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Oh my goodness, now I have a reputation to worry about! Up to 2 since your post! Now I really better behave...

I could even enable the "Leaderboard." It would be accessible in the Menu Bar above and would show the members who get the most reactions each day. I'm sure often that would be you. 😉

28 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

So, back to the original topic here, other than the increased sonnet-like quality of Phil's latest revision that you noted, do you feel that this latest version represents a net improvement, or a deterioration, over the previous version? Do you feel that it shows increased clarity and/or linearity? If so, do you feel that this/these quality/ies work/s to its detriment--or not? Do you feel that in this latest version, you are being patronizingly, controllingly led from point to point without enough free range given to your imagination?

The jury is still out on that. I'll need more time. I gotta say, though I like what he's doing, I'm still a fan of the original version he had up. I would have liked to see that one perfected. I think it's because I'm a fan of the short, intense poem. I know the sonnet is a short form, but it's about the longest poem I write and like to read. :laugh:


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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A. Baez
46 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

We're allowed to express sadness and confusion but not happiness or anger or worry!

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All of them should work -- at least they do on mine: thanks, laughing, confused, sad, and like.

Did you read what I said? I said we don't have the options to express such commonplace emotions as happiness, anger, or worry. Or surprise, for that matter! 😶

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You mean for the smilies or for these newly-enabled reactions?

Sorry--yes, I meant for the latter. I'm running the latest version of Android, so if the reactions don't work on this platform, that's a pretty bad oversight.

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I could even enable the "Leaderboard." It would be accessible in the Menu Bar above and would show the members who get the most reactions each day. I'm sure often that would be you. 😉

Oh my gosh! Please don't, though. What would be productive about that kind of implicit imposed competition?

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The jury is still out on that. I'll need more time. I gotta say, though I like what he's doing, I'm still a fan of the original version he had up. I would have liked to see that one perfected. I think it's because I'm a fan of the short, intense poem. I know the sonnet is a short form, but it's about the longest poem I write and like to read. 

I see! Wow! I didn't realize you had such a short attention span for poetry! I'm glad you mentioned that, because I have just been poised to post something of mine in the "Longer Poetic Works" section--my longest poem ever, at 3 1/3 pages. So, I won't expect a response from you. 😅 Sorry if I withered you with the Keats PM poem!

 

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tonyv
46 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I said we don't have the options to express such commonplace emotions as happiness, anger, or worry. Or surprise, for that matter!

Well, I've always associated worry and sadness with the "confused" reaction, because it kind of looks confused, worried, and sad --

reactions.jpg

-- but I can see the need for an "anger" reaction; I could see me using it often with you. The software is incredibly versatile, and I saw there were ways to add more than these standard ones and even edit these ones. I just don't know how to do it. If I feel like it one of these days, I'll look into it.

 

46 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I'm running the latest version of Android, so if the reactions don't work on this platform, that's a pretty bad oversight.

I doubt there's an oversight on this as there seems to be an abundance of android and iphone fanboys on the support forum where I'm active, but I'll try to find out. Perhaps you could explain what happens when you tap the reaction icon on your phone. Nothing? Maybe send me a screenshot of what you see. Here it is on my seven year old phone:

IMG_20200323_000654.png

 

46 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

What would be productive about that kind of implicit imposed competition?

Oh, I think it's stupid, but people seem to be into that kind of thing, being rewarded, awarded, etc.

 

46 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I see! Wow! I didn't realize you had such a short attention span for poetry! I'm glad you mentioned that, because I have just been poised to post something of mine in the "Longer Poetic Works" section--my longest poem ever, at 3 1/3 pages. So, I won't expect a response from you. 😅 Sorry if I withered you with the Keats PM poem!

You didn't at all with the Keats poem. I love Keats. I just need more time. I have a lot to reply to. I'll answer re Longer Poetic Works in the Clubs topic.


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A. Baez
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Well, I've always associated worry and sadness with the "confused" reaction, because it kind of looks confused, worried, and sad --

Okay, true.

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-- but I can see the need for an "anger" reaction; I could see me using it often with you.

Oh. That kind of puts a damper on the conversation. Just remember, night to my voice belongs!

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Oh, I think it's stupid, but people seem to be into that kind of thing, being rewarded, awarded, etc.

I know; I particularly despise these mechanisms on poetry sites--it's an abomination!

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You didn't at all with the Keats poem. I love Keats. I just need more time. I have a lot to reply to.

Take your time; you set yourself up for this sort of punishment. 😀

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Perhaps you could explain what happens when you tap the reaction icon on your phone. Nothing? Maybe send me a screenshot of what you see.

Well, I got the screenshot but can't figure out how to get it into this platform. (I'm working with a new phone.) I can save the image into Drive, and download the image from there into Files, but it still seems equally unsharable there, other than by allowing someone access to it on my Google Drive, or emailing, texting, or Facebooking, etc. it. Anyway, what comes up when I hit the reaction button is a list like this:

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tonyv
24 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Okay, true.

Actually, there is a "sad" one. See the pic.

24 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Oh. That kind of puts a damper on the conversation. Just remember, night to my voice belongs!

Yes, it does. But while you sometimes make me angry, I get over it quickly. 😏

24 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I know; I particularly despise these mechanisms on poetry sites--it's an abomination!

What do you think about that reputation feature in the profile square? I can disable that.

24 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Take your time; you set yourself up for this sort of punishment.

I don't know why I do the things I do.🤔🙂

24 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Well, I got the screenshot but can't figure out how to get it into this platform. (I'm working with a new phone.) I can save the image into Drive, and download the image from there into Files, but it still seems equally unsharable there, other than by allowing someone access to it on my Google Drive, or emailing, texting, or Facebooking, etc. it. Anyway, what comes up when I hit the reaction button is a list like this

Okay, we'll have to figure that out. Maybe move it first to your computer and upload it from there?

 

In any case, at the end of the day I'll move the posts in this discussion of ours to a clubs topic before Phil starts requesting an ANGER button.:laugh:


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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A. Baez
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Actually, I there is a "sad" one. See the pic.

Yes, right. Well, in the end, all emotions elide!

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Yes, it does. But while you sometimes make me angry, I get over it quickly. 😏

Yes--the anger and the recovery, are both mutual. 😵

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What do you think about that reputation feature in the profile square? I can disable that.

Yeah, why not? It's pretty dippy. I saw elsewhere you wrote quite inspiringly about the efforts you'd made to make and keep this site classy. Removing that button would help.

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I don't know why I do the things I do.🤔🙂

I think all of us want to feel like a hero; some just pursue it more vigorously than others.

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Okay, we'll have to figure that out. Maybe move it first to your computer and upload it from there?

image.thumb.png.e7b7e846d04b74e9f66f4ea89c70179e.png

There. Recently, my smartphone uploads to Drive haven't been reliably accessible on my PC, but this one made it.

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In any case, at the end of the day I'll move the posts in this discussion of ours to a clubs topic before Phil starts requesting an ANGER button.

Good thought! I'll hunt it down there.

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tonyv
1 minute ago, A. Baez said:

Yes, right. Well, in the end, all emotions elide!

I don't know if it's pleasure or if it's pain! IS IT PLEASURE OR IS IT PAINNNNN?!?!? 😳

3 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

Yeah, why not? It's pretty dippy. I saw elsewhere you wrote quite inspiringly about the efforts you'd made to make and keep this site classy. Removing that button would help.

I'll do it.

3 minutes ago, A. Baez said:

I think all of us want to feel like a hero; some just pursue it more vigorously than others.

Hmmmm. A people pleaser? I'll have to read up on that pathology.

I'll take that pic to the support forum and look into it this week.


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A. Baez
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I don't know if it's pleasure or if it's pain! IS IT PLEASURE OR IS IT PAINNNNN?!?!? 😳

With each other, we often seem to teeter on that edge!!

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I'll do it.

Looks better already!

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Hmmmm. A people pleaser? I'll have to read up on that pathology.

Ultimately, I see it as the person trying to please/prove something to himself (accommodating your grammar preference here. Incidentally, I should have said "all of us want to feel like heroes.")

Quote

 

I'll take that pic to the support forum and look into it this week.

 

Good! I'd like to have the full range of emotional expression on this site both at home and in the field!

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badger11

Thanks Tony and AB. It has been an interesting interaction. In particular, I enjoyed the outcome of Mrs. S using her husband's plays to plot.

Of course, communication can lead to compromises that dilute a poem. For instance, the nuance of his contempt, self-contempt, the public contempt has been lost in this poem. However, that is why poetry is challenging for reader and writer. For me, the poem is dead if it doesn't communicate.

best

Phil

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A. Baez
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I enjoyed the outcome of Mrs. S using her husband's plays to plot.

It's an interesting fantasy, but my mind can't accept the vision of a lusty and boorish Mr. Shakespeare. By all accounts, he was sensitive and refined.

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For instance, the nuance of his contempt, self-contempt, the public contempt has been lost in this poem.

If it's of any comfort, I, for one, never got that nuance, because it did not strike me as such--rather, it seemed to me a simple vagueness. I believe that to convey such nuance, it must be set on an already-well-sketched stage of context--i.e., some prior, stronger hint at these three forms of contempt, or their makings, that would justify the reader reading the word, once he/she encounters it, as referring to all of these forms. I think that that's how Shakespeare handled such situations. Tony, hold your rapier!

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For me, the poem is dead if it doesn't communicate.

I'm glad you agree. Now you have a range of versions that appeal to a range of readers!

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tonyv

Thank you, Phil, for your patience. I'll be cleaning up this topic very shortly, removing all the off topic posts, etc. 


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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badger11

No problem Tony. I have no issues with the thread.

best

Phil

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tonyv
51 minutes ago, badger11 said:

No problem Tony. I have no issues with the thread.

best

Phil

Thank you, Phil. In that case, I'll let it ride. Sometimes a discussion just takes off and you go with it. If you change your mind and want it cleaned up just let me know. 


Here is a link to an index of my works on this site: tonyv's Member Archive topic

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A. Baez

Phil, I hadn't thought of it that way. The Bard speaks so earnestly, insightfully, and eloquently that it's easy to lose track of the implications of some of the things he's written. If those sonnets are autobiographical, from his wife's point of view, he would likely seem a common, contemptuous, conceited, deceitful, lusty cheater just like the rest of 'em. You're right, it is fascinating to imagine Anne turning her husband's material against him! Ouch!

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tonyv
55 minutes ago, badger11 said:

Perhaps Mrs. S stumbled on the Dark Lady sonnets😀

 

https://allpoetry.com/The-Dark-Lady-Sonnets-(127---154)

 

Something makes me think these "dark lady sonnets" might be very much to my liking. Will have to delve into them, spend some time checking them out. 


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