goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Lake, How wonderful to use a haiku eye to bring us scenes of winter in your part of the world We do indeed learn from each other. The charity bell is quite unexpected and makes the reader sit up and take note. I like how you use the image dune to evoke the action of the wind in the winter landscape hinting at the way the wind whips sand in the desert. Just a suggestion - in your revision of the previous haiku you've deleted the original versions - I think it would be great if you would post these too and give the reader a sense of how your haiku evolve. There may be details in your original which will touch another reader and inspire another exchange of ideas. Enjoyed your winter haiku. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aleksandra Posted May 28, 2009 Lake dear, of course we can go on with winter haiku as much as we wish . Still is winter, and for me winter works so well as inspiration, especially winter with snow I enjoyed your two haiku poems. Both are wonderful, but ok for the first one is better. I love that one. And I agree with goldenlangur. It would be nice to keep the original version, revision too, so we can read and compare, how the poem grows, and sure ideas are always nice like suggestions also. Anyway this is challenge Well done, and keep it come. Aleksandra Quote The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau History of Macedonia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Golden and Alek, Suggestions taken. It's a good idea to keep the original so people can read and compare. Let me see if I can still remember the original one. So keeping the original also applies to works in other columns? Very happy new year! Lake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 I wrote a few haiku last month- thought perhaps I would share them here? if this is the right way/place? they are irreverent to that part of haiku which looks to capture nature- they look to do the opposite of that really, I tried to capture the nature of the human brain in these... and so if there is any subtle turn in them, it attempts it there... also, I was looking to be strict in the 5-7-5 rule with them- although Im glad to see we are more interested here in the subtly than the rule! Ill look to find some new ones in the next days... all wisdom falls down into its own cleverness haiku from here on ________ five, seven and five wild imaginings at bay I bless the constraint! ________ about this word "wild" does it slip off of your tongue? leave it for the grave! ________ how do you do that!? "I refuse to hide my joy!" passion of the muse ________ a spate of haiku from the midst of such doings untethered repose ________ that internet joke...? "YOUVE ARRIVED AT THE LAST PAGE!" ... I have no more words! _________ the Monks mandala the cat hears his dinner tin we will start again... ________ those are SPLASHY ones! little boy's haiku, in MUD! words tracked on carpet oh, heres one that does speak of nature... it was written on Nov 4th, remember that Tuesday? ~a flicker arrives prefers suet to millet his election day~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hello rumisong, Lovely to meet you You're defintely in the right place here with your brilliant senryu, the cousin of the haiku, which as you say, tries to capture the human nature. It's admirable that you've used the 5-7-5 rule, always a challenge and so gratifying when the haiku/senryu work the better for it. But yes, you're right, the short-long-short is okay as well as well as having the fragment and phrase aspects without the 5-7-5 syllables. Love the way the first senryu suggests vanity and tribulations of artistic endeavor. The wit in the second senryu and sixth is superb and I also like the dark undertone of the third one. I'm a little unsure what the allusions in the fourth and fifth are. In the seventh senryu, I wondered if the juxtaposition of the mandala and the cat's dinner tin implied an interruption of meditation? The playfulness of the eight one is great and the final one does indeed refer to a shift, political and seasonal. Thoroughly enjoyed these senryu and look forward to more. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Lake, So glad that you've posted the original. It certainly works together with your revision and gives us some idea how to workshop and change and improve. Thank you A very Happy New Year to you too I suppose you celebrate both - the one in January and then the Chinese New Year It's brilliant when one can do that! goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 goldenlangur wrote: Hello rumisong, Lovely to meet you Thank you for the welcome gl! senryu, the cousin of the haiku, which as you say, tries to capture the human nature. AH! Thats great! Im so very glad to have this new information... looked it up on Wikipedia just now- yes- this is so, good to know! Thank you SO much for your comments! I also like the dark undertone of the third one. much of my writing, and so indeed my poems, will be about "Dying to self" - surrender of the ego, to find the true nature of our selves... the glory and beauty behind even the darkest of human experience... so, they are not so much "dark" as meant to point to the ending of grasping, in the Buddhist sense I suppose... although, many mystics from all over were about this- In the seventh senryu, I wondered if the juxtaposition of the mandala and the cat's dinner tin implied an interruption of meditation? for Tibetan Buddhists, the mandala is made of sand- intricate sand "paintings" that they will spend weeks creating- and as SOON as they are finished making them, they sweep it all together into a pile of mono-colored sand - to illustrate the fleeting and temporary nature of life... here, the cat told them when the mandala was finished in his rush to dinner, caring less than the monks, how temporary life is (hoping here for an image of the monastery cat running beeline across the floor to the kitchen, not thinking much of "going around" the mandala in the center of the floor) Thoroughly enjoyed these senryu and look forward to more. thank you again, so much- Im having fun here already! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hello rumisong, Thank you for returning with some additional details on your seventh senryu. This motif is indeed a noble and also a truly challenging one: surrender of the ego, to find the true nature of our selves... the glory and beauty behind even the darkest of human experience... so, they are not so much "dark" as meant to point to the ending of grasping, in the Buddhist sense I suppose... I've enjoyed your thoughts about the mandala symbolizing the Buddha wisdom that human existence is transitory. The cat being unmindful of this fundamental principle comes into its own. Thank you very much. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 goldenlangur wrote:I've enjoyed your thoughts about the mandala symbolizing the Buddha wisdom that human existence is transitory. The cat being unmindful of this fundamental principle comes into its own. Yes, well, knowing now that you are from that very part of the world, I can feel quite foolish for having "explained" what I meant to you - but then, you asked me: I wondered if the juxtaposition of the mandala and the cat's dinner tin implied an interruption of meditation? and so now Im curious to what YOU saw there otherwise? Maybe the mandalas are not made on the floors? - maybe they are never made in the vicinity of cats? - maybe there are no cats in monasteries? or the cats food does not come in tins, in that part of the world... hmmm... I think you have secret information about this that you must now share with us! do tell, please (we only just "met" and Im teasing you already... all in fun- I know you know) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 rumisong, Welcome on board! Enjoyed your senryu as Golden noted as I felt. Even the last one is a senryu in my view. Golden had a great review on it, all I can add is that I particularly enjoyed your use of a poetic device of internal rhyme in the last one - the "e" sound in "suet", "millet" and "election". I started Haiku in the strict 5/7/5 form as well, and I also added a title to each. Here are my two early haiku: Sounds of Nature Mountains float afar Egrets hover, mirror pond Ocarina sings Whisper of Spring Who kicks off soft snow Drips, drops, sound of icicles Naked green giggles They don't sound haiku, do they? Golden's works, to me, are very haiku, even in his non-haiku poems and proses, you can feel haiku there. Enjoy your stay here Lake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rumisong Posted May 28, 2009 Thank you for your welcome Lake Lake wrote: I started Haiku in the strict 5/7/5 form as well, and I also added a title to each. ah, its just so easy for me to break rules- that in this case (writing this set last month, before I met you all) the rule was what I was interested in, as that one line said "I bless the constraint" - I can look forward to when the rule breaks again for me- but for now, this is where my mind is drawn- may last only another day, or longer- I never get to know I am very glad to quit calling them haiku though- it was a natural thing for me to go into "satire" with them... so to see that this turn of form was already set out, is a fine discovery for me cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Lake, I'm delighted that you posted your work here as examples of your early haiku. The use of the 5-7-5 rule is a great disciplining tool and certainly helps to focus the images. As English is time stressed rather than syllabic, getting the rule right in English is quite challenging but not impossible, as many of us find You know so well by now and tolerate very generously, my constant nit-picking. The only not so haiku part of your two beautiful poems is the way the aha moment for the reader is already spelled out: naked green giggles This is such a sublime evocation and most delightfully playful but the reader should arrive at it through the images in the haiku. As always I offer my thoughts and interpretation in a spirit of exchange, mindful and respecting your freedom to ignore them. I'm very moved by your praise of my haiku efforts and feel much encouraged by such generous support. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hello rumisong, How you tease this hapless peasant from the Himalayas! Please don't feel 'foolish' about explaining your experience of the mandala practice. Our little kingdom is the sole remaining independent Tibetan Buddhist country, but it is wonderful that in the US this philosophy and practice has found a home. Therefore, you as a Buddhist in the US have much to share and tell us about as any Buddhist in this part of the globe. Thoroughly enjoyed your description of the cat ignoring the sacred space of the mandala and thereby showing how transient it all is. The thing which did occur to me is that as the cat would be in a karmic rebirth of a kind and therefore lack the higher consciousness of a human, which makes Dharma possible. Thank you very much for coming back with your thoughts and rest assured I do not believe that our part of the world is in any way privileged than other Buddhist communities. So delighted to hear of your experiences and thoughts. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Golden, You are spot on my lack of haiku spirit in these two. See how hard I was struggling with that 5/7/5, especially when I wanted to fit it in two different languages. Even now, I still have hard time creating that "surprise" in the third line. Many thanks for your sincere words. Lake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Lake, I'm very grateful that you're so graceful about my critical reading of your haiku. I do share this: Lake wrote: Even now, I still have hard time creating that "surprise" in the third line. Lake You're a wonderful presence here and I enjoy our haiku and tanka discussions very much goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 morning sun mists rise from my frozen mobile Using short-long-short rather than the classic 5-7-5. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aleksandra Posted May 28, 2009 also, I was looking to be strict in the 5-7-5 rule with them- although Im glad to see we are more interested here in the subtly than the rule! all wisdom falls down into its own cleverness haiku from here on ________ five, seven and five wild imaginings at bay I bless the constraint! ________ about this word "wild" does it slip off of your tongue? leave it for the grave! ________ how do you do that!? "I refuse to hide my joy!" passion of the muse ________ a spate of haiku from the midst of such doings untethered repose ________ that internet joke...? "YOUVE ARRIVED AT THE LAST PAGE!" ... I have no more words! _________ the Monks mandala the cat hears his dinner tin we will start again... ________ those are SPLASHY ones! little boy's haiku, in MUD! words tracked on carpet ~a flicker arrives prefers suet to millet his election day~ Hello Rumisong. Glad to read yours haiku. All of them have their beauty and origin. For me also, haiku without the rule is more provocative ( it's easier ). Thank you for sharing this with us. Aleksandra Quote The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau History of Macedonia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aleksandra Posted May 28, 2009 Lake wrote: I started Haiku in the strict 5/7/5 form as well, and I also added a title to each. Here are my two early haiku: Sounds of Nature Mountains float afar Egrets hover, mirror pond Ocarina sings Whisper of Spring Who kicks off soft snow Drips, drops, sound of icicles Naked green giggles They don't sound haiku, do they? Golden's works, to me, are very haiku, even in his non-haiku poems and proses, you can feel haiku there. Lake Ah Lake, they sound haiku to me. And I like how you made the titles for them. For me that is a big deal . Always I am having problems with the titles, and for haiku - more problematic job. So in your case, I love it. I especially like the " Sounds of Nature " Aleksandra Quote The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau History of Macedonia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aleksandra Posted May 28, 2009 goldenlangur wrote: Using short-long-short rather than the classic 5-7-5. goldenlangur I love that way GL . goldenlangur wrote: morning sun mists rise from my frozen mobile Interesting one. The way how it starts then ending part - very different, with different sound and way from what gives the beginning. Alek Quote The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau History of Macedonia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Thank you so much Aleksandra for your comments on this haiku. Nothing like a silent and defunct mobile after being left out in freezing temperatures! I'm sure this does not happen to many, though goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 dusk waxing crescent is brighter under bare trees goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 January dusk in the center of the oak red sun Or: red sun in the center of the oak January dusk goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Golden, I've read this two versions a couple of times, trying to see the difference between them. I must admit it is really hard to tell which one is better than the other. All I can see is which one you want to put emphasis on: January dusk or red sun. The line "in the center of the oak" is very unique, I think. Not much help here, but if I have to choose I'll take verse one. Thanks for the thinking. Lake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lake Posted May 28, 2009 our last summer fades into fluffy snow - butterflies in dreams cold dawn candle’s blown off - unfinished lines… moonless night gently, a lone tarn rocks a tired boat a robin sings with a coarse voice delight in despair foggy morning how beautiful blooming camellia! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldenlangur Posted May 28, 2009 Hi Lake, Thank you for giving this some thought. You've put your finger on which image should be the pivot here. I'm strung between both In the original I had : red sun in the center of the bare oak dusk I wondered if January could replace bare? I appreciate the trouble you've taken with this. Thank you. goldenlangur Quote goldenlangur Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
