Trey

[Tinker]

Trey

 

Today I cried tears

of regret.

I was not enough.

-------- Judi Van Gorder

 

Still playing with Forms, this is a Lune.

[Larsen M. Callirhoe]

i want to hear more. what ive read so far sounds good tink.

[waxwings]

Trey

 

Today I cried tears

of regret.

I was not enough.

-------- Judi Van Gorder

 

Still playing with Forms, this is a Lune.

 

Your persistence in tracking down 'form poems' not widely known is laudable. I did look up your notes on Lune. They brought to mind that just about any form, even the more well known, was once 'invented'. The known sonnet forms were, like, 'invented'. The Beymorlin sonnet was 'fabricated' as a collaboration between three poets whose names I do not momentarily recall but are hinted at in the BEY-MOR-LIN part.

 

This would be idele chatter, but I need to throw in myfive cents worth re a question: "What makes a mere mechanistic array of syllables or words qualify the result as a poem. We may benefit from a discussion or, better, a conversation (Are you there, tonyv?) on what we as a group think makes a poem.

 

My personal take is that a rewrite of your very poignant poem, such as

 

Today

I cried tears

--of regret.

 

I was not enough.

 

would make the poem hidden inside your Lune a one perhaps more so.

 

THANKS FOR SHARING.

Edited January 4, 2011 by waxwings

[Benjamin]

Hi Tink.

One of the advantages of minimalist forms is that they are able to convey universal messages. That takes skill. To extend a poem like this would be to personalize it with unnecessary information. It would then be reduced to just another “bleeding all over the page” diary poem. As it stands it is skeletal and succinct but has feeling; it tells it's story, and leaves the reader to flesh it out. I'm not a fan of poems which read like cryptic crossword clues and this one certainly does not. Good example of the form. Benjamin . :icon_cool:

[Tinker]

Hi Victor, Thanks for the comments... It is for you to fill in the blanks...Just as Benjamin noted.

 

But for this community, the gory details are, my dog was sick and I made a very difficult decision to have him put down. Could I have saved him? The truth is, I don't know. I had to weigh many factors and after caring for a sick dog for some time now, watching him get sicker instead of better, spending a lot of money on tests, treatment and hospital bills, (I didn't have animal health insurance and the Vet is very expensive), and knowing with the next tests and treatment he had less than a 20% chance of making it, I tearfully came to the decision it was time to put him down.

 

He was a 10 year old Siberian Husky, Mc Kenna's Terminator III was his registered name, better known as Trey. He was a champion show dog when he was a pup but he was a late bloomer and didn't get his size until late. The Kennel that owned him thought he wasn't going to get his size to show well as an adult dog (they were wrong) so they neutered him and sold him to my son as a pet. Trey was an escape artist and needed room to run, so eventually my son gave him to me because I had the space for him to run and my property is well fenced and gated so he couldn't escape. He slept in my bedroom, and was my companion for the past 8 years. I will miss him.

 

~~Tink

[waxwings]

I wonder what Victor means by wanting to hear more, i.e., more of the form or of this particular poem.

 

I'm in agreement w/what B says beginning with what minimalist forms can do and that it takes skill to do that. Would that mean we should see how a poem with significant minimal content but unneccessarily wordy could be reduced to fewer words, for, as B further poses, adding words would be to "personalize it with unnecessaru further information".

 

It is clear, that even though what tinker adds to show how the poem came about or from, the poem conveys the 'shape' of what she felt that is applicable to other situations that entail aloss of what is precious.

 

My initial comments dealt with the question how to elaborate, in space and time, and with the same words to remove the not fully expressed desire of Victor's to have more.

 

I am a firm believer that a good poem forum should not be merely a place for authors to hope anodynic responses but to learn by discussing what, if anything, can be done to make the good poem possibly even stronger.

 

ne of the advantages of minimalist forms is that they are able to convey universal messages. That takes skill. To extend a poem like this would be to personalize it with unnecessary information. It would then be reduced to just another “bleeding all over the page” diary poem. As it stands it is skeletal and succinct but has feeling; it tells it's story, and leaves the reader to flesh it out. I'm not a fan of poems which read like cryptic crossword clues and this one certainly does not. Good example of the form.

[Tinker]

Hi Ike, I am sorry it took me until this evening to get back to the computer to finish my responses... I thought your first response was perfect and I agree, if I was not writing an example, the small change you made to my lines would be a great alternative.

 

As for your comment about "Invented Forms", if you read the intro page to the "Invented Forms" Forum, you would have seen that I begin with saying that all forms are invented but the established form such as the sonnet, villanelle, ballad and so many more were begun simply as the best way to deliver the content. Over time others emulated the frame and gave it a name and that is how verse forms are born.

 

But in recent decades, structured poems have been written with the express purpose of being emulated. Often the poet not only titles the poem but also gives the structure a name. Some of those forms were created as teaching tools such as many found in Berg's Pathways but with the advent of the internet, there are many forms that have simply been designed as challenges on poetry forums such as this one or just created with the idea that others might like to give them a try. These verse forms that probably aren't more than 50 years old are the forms I refer to as "invented forms." Some of the invented forms I have found in books and on internet sites are really quite well thought out, others I am afraid are simply amatuerish. I include all of them in the forum but I truly have to wonder how many poets have actually tried some of them.

 

Still, I am committed to try and write one of each. At least unless someone here would like to try a few and give me permission to use their poem as an example. Remember gaagii, she wrote example poems in most of the Irish forms and did a great job... Some of those are forms I really didn't want to tackle but she came through with some really great stuff.

 

Thanks for your thorough discourse. I have always found value in your words.

 

~~Tink

[Tinker]

Hi Benjamin, Thank you so much for your comments. I really appreciate your thoughtful observation. You got it.

 

~~Tink

[goldenlangur]

I always learn something about a new form in your work, Tink and this is an eloquent example of the Lune. :D

 

 

Thank you.

[Larsen M. Callirhoe]

hi tinker and ikars. i don't mean to imply that everything needed wasnt implied in the poem at hand. that is not the case at all or what i was trying to insinuate. what i meant was this is poetic expression at its best and i want more like that. sorry for confusing you all. i lack fortitude sometimes to get accross exactly what i mean at times. i do get mentally fatigued at times and dont relay exactly what i mean to get accross at times. sorry for troubling you with my pestilence.

 

victor :)

[badger11]

Trey

 

Today I cried tears

of regret.

I was not enough.

-------- Judi Van Gorder

 

Still playing with Forms, this is a Lune.

 

The final line is perfectly weighted, enriches the opening confession, resonates with a self-realisation that is not true. Those who try and care tend to judge themselves so harshly.

 

badge

[waxwings]

hi tinker and ikars. i don't mean to imply that everything needed wasnt implied in the poem at hand. that is not the case at all or what i was trying to insinuate. what i meant was this is poetic expression at its best and i want more like that. sorry for confusing you all. i lack fortitude sometimes to get accross exactly what i mean at times. i do get mentally fatigued at times and dont relay exactly what i mean to get accross at times. sorry for troubling you with my pestilence.

 

victor :)

 

Dear Victor,

 

I hope I did not sound judgmental. My statement was merely to say I wanted to be sure what your desire was. Either one of my guesses would be OK. It is my belief that a good poem is very likely to leave more than one reader wistfully wishing there was more said and still acknowledge that she or he did not mean that demanding more words is really needed.

waxy [:<

[Lake]

I agree with Badge on the last line. Especially after reading the story of Trey, it weighted even more.

 

Is there an end to the forms, Tinker? The collection is definately a treasure.

 

Best,

 

Lake

[waxwings]

I think that the short forms like this one are likely, perhaps should trigger experimentation in terms of how to break up a succinct thought in to a variety of ways.

 

Your poem might be better off by some twist in the title to hint (not say right out, mind you) that you are talking about a beloved pet. I missed that part completely and was not sure for hours after reading your post that you were reacting to the loss of a pet.

[badger11]

Your poem might be better off by some twist in the title to hint (not say right out, mind you) that you are talking about a beloved pet. I missed that part completely and was not sure for hours after reading your post that you were reacting to the loss of a pet.

 

 

The present title relates to a specific life experience, for which Tink has now provided a context. I agree with ww that without Tink giving that context the title is meaningless. Perhaps Tink wants to retain that context and personal meaning (for herself). Does this make it a private rather than public poem? Personally I ignored the title and read the poem in a similar way to Benjamin. I found my own context.

 

badge

[tonyv]

Tinker,

 

Somehow I know you were enough.

 

With deepest sympathy,

 

Tony

[waxwings]

Your poem might be better off by some twist in the title to hint (not say right out, mind you) that you are talking about a beloved pet. I missed that part completely and was not sure for hours after reading your post that you were reacting to the loss of a pet.

 

 

The present title relates to a specific life experience, for which Tink has now provided a context. I agree with ww that without Tink giving that context the title is meaningless. Perhaps Tink wants to retain that context and personal meaning (for herself). Does this make it a private rather than public poem? Personally I ignored the title and read the poem in a similar way to Benjamin. I found my own context.

 

badge

 

I was talking about the title. I would bet that if we could have a hearty and long face-to-face we actually share the poems ability to universalize loss, and I think I have said so before.

 

I would accept the poem even if it had no title whatsoever. We must remember titles were and are used to identify/reference a poem. Today, however, it is recommended title should be a hook to draw in even the oh so casual and plebeian reader to read it not let it go unread.

[dedalus]

Today I cried tears

of joy.

I was not enough.

 

... and so I walked away, sharp, alive,

ready for far better things. Fuck 'em!

[Tinker]

I do want to thank all of you who have responded here. I don't want to bore you or dwell on this small poem overly much when there are so many other poems on this site I have yet to read or respond to.

 

GL thank you for the lovely comment.

 

Badger, I appreciate your thoughtful commentary. I didn't expect the reader to get the title. I wasn't going to title it at all at first. But, by simply putting the name, it might invite the curious. It won't answer them however. I love that you and others put my words into your own context and felt them in your own way. That is what I hoped for. Loss it loss and we all have regrets.

 

Tony, You knew ahead of reading this what I had experienced. I appreciate your emphathy and your support.

 

Brendan, Your response made me laugh... Clearly you read only the poem and responded in your own way and I love it. You had my back.

[Aleksandra]

Tink, those are very nice lines, and the mood in your poem is familiar to me. I think I can get this form down :) , it seems easier one. I'll give it a try. Thank you.

 

Aleksandra

[Tinker]

Aleks, Thank you, I knew you would get it. As for the form, it is just a tool. Something to get me writing and I am sure you can master any form you attempt. You don't have to be reminded because your poems always show your soul, but for any others reading this, the heart of the poem comes first, the form is just a structural guide.

 

~~Tink