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Poetry Magnum Opus
Terry L shuff

church bells

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                                                      sunday morning here

                                  church bells calling the faithful

                                        empty pews quiet

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Amen   Very nice Terry 

Just a note, it is suggested by Bruce Ross, How to Haiku that in haiku "ing" should be avoided, it gives a false sense of urgency and uses a precious syllable.

~~Tink

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Its not a false sence of urgency.  Morning is a time of day. And the bells are ringing .  Thats an observation , not a technically.   Sometimes the message in poetry is important.  Grammer teachers and english literature teachers fell in to that same trap.  "  The HEART OF THE POET has gone to school "maybe Bruce has a false sence of poetry.

Edited by Terry L shuff
Addition

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Terry, I got your message with this piece. If this were not haiku, it is fine. But, it appears you are trying to do a haiku unless I am mistaken. 

Judi's tip will help in that direction. As a suggestion, create two images that paint an overlapping scene. 

Here is one suggestion how that can be created using your idea

 

Church bells ring loud,

Sunday sunlight flashes

on empty pews.

 

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i was pointing out that original Basho  did not have sylables, or puncutation.   those were contrivances of caucaution poets that could not correctly translate japanese into english.with the same sense, and nuances,true with all languages.   The  Basho Haiku was short sentence,long sentence,short sentence.   setting,action,.result. my poem shows an overlapping scene as the result.its my choice to use original or westernized form,or to condense farther or not.   I find it peculiar that the english translators established a fixed number of sylables,for correct translating. and now hold hope everyone will think.this is the correct form.many new poets do not know the original form,or who Basho is.  this is what the westeren world does. saying things like     a false sense  of urgency.     poetry is from  the heart, yes we want to stay true to form,  many Basho poems are varied in the 3rd line .but opinions are like noses,everyone has one .lets remember,the message is the purpose of poetry.   Joel you know what the western world did to the Bible.   The poetry in each Bible translation language is worded differently,but they are true to the paralleslism,and the message,   so a minute variation is not enough to take issue,in my opinion i am following Basho format. I know you and Tink are helping,with good motive,but please allow acceptable variations and not personal preferences.

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Terry, take it as a recommendation and not an imposition. I apologize if it sounded like one. I also have copies of Basho, Buson, and Issa with English translations. I have also read about the flexibility of the Japanese language for haiku compared to English. In fact, some advocate an equivalent 3-5-3 English versions factoring in the difference of the languages in generating meaning. In fact, I don't follow rigidly the 5-7-5 format.

I think I could even improve my original suggestion by following the 3-5-3 format

 

Bells ring loud,

Sunlight flashes on

empty pews.

 

One article wrote below

"In languages such as English and its relatives whose grammars are heavily dependent on word order, haiku must and will take a much different form from that in Japanese. By concerning ourselves too much with the outward form of haiku, we can lose sight of its essence."

Have a nice day, Terry.
 

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Terry,  I too apologize if I sounded critical of your poem.  The poem always comes first, form second. Joel makes that point perfectly with that last quote. And we all follow that here. 

My initial response didn't suggest you correct your poem.  But you had said to me one of the reasons you came here was to learn and you were open to information.  I added my note about gerunds simply as a piece of information. 

~~Tink

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Terry, for what it's worth, I agree that the use of -ing in this case may be appropriate (just another opinion).  It does communicate a tone of urgent, on-going summons.   My suggestions run more along the lines of personalizing the experience even more than it is.  As you seem to understand very well, haiku are particularly unforgiving when it comes to extra words and even syllables.  To my ear, "morning", "here" and "quiet" are redundant words that could give place to some that carry more power (i.e. how about the use of "wake" or "echo" someplace?).  I like the way the poem tends more to regret rather than moralizing.

Nice,

 - Dave

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      Thank you for that suggestion Dave.    this is a new thought for me.

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In the wake of too many mass shootings, my first thought was that this referred to one of those. I absorbed the words without counting syllables, and didn't even notice the haiku form. Unless the writer is meeting a requirement to use a specific form, I think the power of the words should override the importance of the form. And I surprise myself with that attitude, because I enjoy following specific forms. Guess I'm just feeling cantankerous. :wacko:

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