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tonyv

The nip has not relented yet.
When village roads are filled with snow,
she thinks of him yet can't forget
the nip has not relented yet.
For her, he writes a triolet,
but there's no hope that she will know --
the nip has not relented yet --
when city streets are filled with snow.


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Tinker

Ooooo Tony, I like this triolet. The chill of the snow and the relationship comes right through this piece to put goosebumps on my arms. It is crisp and clever. Well written.

 

~~Tink


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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Lake

Hi Tony,

 

I see the repeated lines but am not aware of the form. As Tinker says it is a triolet, then it is very clever you used the word in the poem. I'll have a search of the form.

 

All in all, very pleasant read.

 

Lake

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Lake

Sounds very good, Tony, very rhythmic. But just feel it is too short, want to listen more, anyway it is a short poem. :)

 

After another listen, I understand you wanted to stress "him", but still feel "him" is stressed a bit more? I can't read it as fluently as you do, Tony. I'll stutter. :icon_redface:

Edited by Lake

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dedalus

Ahhh, Tony ... you're going all formal on me. Triolets? What next? Have to say it was a nice one, though, calm and quiet and lovely.

 

Good one!


Drown your sorrows in drink, by all means, but the real sorrows can swim

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tonyv
Ahhh, Tony ... you're going all formal on me. Triolets? What next? Have to say it was a nice one, though, calm and quiet and lovely.

 

Good one!

Moi? Formal? :icon_redface: Everyone always says these triolets are tricky to write. Either mine's not very good, or they're not so tricky to write after all. For me, this one was quick and easy for a change. Thanks for your sweet comment, Brendan.

 

Tony

 

Oh, and I was told that my audio recording was a little too sing-song, sounding somewhat like a school example or exercise. So, I made a new audio recording for the link above and the audio archive. Hopefully it's better.


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Aleksandra
Oh, and I was told that my audio recording was a little too sing-song, sounding somewhat like a school example or exercise. So, I made a new audio recording for the link above and the audio archive. Hopefully it's better.

 

:D

 

Ok, I will come here with a comment later. :D

 

:icon_cyclops:


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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tonyv
Oh, and I was told that my audio recording was a little too sing-song, sounding somewhat like a school example or exercise. So, I made a new audio recording for the link above and the audio archive. Hopefully it's better.

 

:D

 

Ok, I will come here with a comment later. :D

 

:icon_cyclops:

Yes ... do that.:rolleyes: I hope this one meets your approval. :icon_razz:

 

Tony :)


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dr_con

Enjoyable, fun and a hoot despite the obvious crutch of formalism! :icon_razz:

 

Nice tony!

 

DC


Join the Voodoo rEvolution. Classes forming now: http://www.integralvoodoo.org/

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tonyv
Enjoyable, fun and a hoot despite the obvious crutch of formalism! :icon_razz:

 

Nice tony!

 

DC

Yes, I do seem to rely on it a lot. :)) Thanks, Dr. Con.

 

Tony :)


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Aleksandra

Ok let's see if this wasn't a triolet and how it looks this way :) :

 

 

" When village roads are filled with snow,

she thinks of him yet can't forget

the nip has not relented yet.

For her, he writes a triolet,

but there's no hope that she will know --

when city streets are filled with snow. "

 

... :) I like it.

 

But the truth is that this is a triolet and also it is a nice poem. The audio that you made sounds good too.

Interesting subject and a good mixture of expressions and feelings. I like your quick poems, Tony.

 

I am reading more and more and trying to find out more of the background of this poem :) .

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

Aleksandra


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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tonyv
Ok let's see if this wasn't a triolet and how it looks this way :) :

 

 

" When village roads are filled with snow,

she thinks of him yet can't forget

the nip has not relented yet.

For her, he writes a triolet,

but there's no hope that she will know --

when city streets are filled with snow. "

 

... :) I like it.

 

But the truth is that this is a triolet and also it is a nice poem. The audio that you made sounds good too.

Interesting subject and a good mixture of expressions and feelings. I like your quick poems, Tony.

 

I am reading more and more and trying to find out more of the background of this poem :) .

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

Aleksandra

I like your little experiment, Alek. How about we write it out like this:

 

The nip has not relented yet. When village roads are filled with snow, she thinks of him yet can't forget the nip has not relented yet. For her, he writes a triolet, but there's no hope that she will know -- the nip has not relented yet -- when city streets are filled with snow.

 

 

Is that better? :rolleyes: I'm glad you liked the audio this time around. :) I agree that it's better. And sometime I'll tell you about the background, too ...

 

Thank you, as always.

 

Tony


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Aleksandra

" When village roads are filled with snow,

she thinks of him yet can't forget

the nip has not relented yet.

For her, he writes a triolet,

but there's no hope that she will know --

when city streets are filled with snow. "

 

 

I like your little experiment, Alek. How about we write it out like this:

 

The nip has not relented yet. When village roads are filled with snow, she thinks of him yet can't forget the nip has not relented yet. For her, he writes a triolet, but there's no hope that she will know -- the nip has not relented yet -- when city streets are filled with snow.

 

 

Is that better? :rolleyes: I'm glad you liked the audio this time around. :) I agree that it's better. And sometime I'll tell you about the background, too ...

 

Thank you, as always.

 

Tony

 

Hey, I was ironical about the audio :D . That still needs some work :) ;) .

 

Tony, you are good and creative. But I think my version is better :icon_razz: . Ok, of course I am joking. The original is the best, and the rest doesn't look bad also.

 

Thanks in advance for your story about the background :) .

 

Aleksandra


The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth - Jean Cocteau

History of Macedonia

 

 

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badger11

The word ‘nip’ had a dynamic; the his/her had a neat parallel in village roads/city streets; the cold restraint was effective.

 

badge :0)

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tonyv
The word ‘nip’ had a dynamic; the his/her had a neat parallel in village roads/city streets; the cold restraint was effective.

 

badge :0)

Thank you, Badge. I'm glad you caught, liked, and pointed out the village/city parallel.

 

Tony :)


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waxwings

Very well done, tony.

 

Difficulty of triolet is to make the repetition, esp. that of the first line be semantically and syntactically a logical sequel of the subject broached by the preceding line.

 

In effect,

"...she thinks of him yet can't forget (that) the nip has not relented yet..."

is a nice complete sentence. The "that" is not needed to understand what it says, and in poems such 'glue' words are often omitted to conserve the rhythmic and condense the semantic flow.

 

I have but a tiny quibble with 'nip' even though it adds to the alliteration of "n". It is esp. so since tinker spoke of "chill", a better word to describe that which "has has not relented yet".

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tonyv

Thank you, Ikars, as always, for your thoughtful reply. Interesting, your observation about that. Though I'm still puzzling out all the applications discussed therein, here's what I could gather from the usage note for "that" in my dictionary:

 

 

"There have also been occasional objections to the omission of that in its use to introduce a subordinate clause, as in I think we should try again. But this usage is entirely idiomatic."

 

 

Fascinating stuff, this usage of our language! I'm still not entirely sure if my omission of that is acceptable, lol.

 

As for nip versus chill, I did consider the latter. While chill seemed more appropriate -- I even preferred it -- it also seemed more pedestrian. Thus I opted for the former since it also denotes a bite.

 

Tony


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waxwings

In this case (neither in your poem or the example you cite), there is no subordinate clause for the 'omitted' "that" to introduce. In your poem the phrase beginning w/ " the nip" merely serves as the object of the verb "forget".

 

My comment was in praise of that your line 3 is written so that the repetition of line 1 is natural and inserted (that) merely to help clarify why I think what I say.

 

As for "nip" why then did you not use "bite". Here thargument is about semantics. A nip is a 'playful bite' but the poem seems to point to a lost love, a serious theme. As I read L1 again I find personification of "chill" more palatable than that of "bite" and certainly of "nip". By that I mean only a person can truly relent and one must choose carefully of what non-animate noun-thing one chooses to be personified. I know that what you have written is OK in common parlance, but poetry is a literary art and has its own influence other than the commonplace over the semantics of an utterance/thought. I would recommend playing around with that line but carefully for the feel is right. Maybe a different verb saying smething with similar implications might be in order.

 

See what you get when you 'praise' a linguistic nut like me.

 

waxwings

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tonyv

Thanks again, Ike.

 

In this case (neither in your poem or the example you cite), there is no subordinate clause for the 'omitted' "that" to introduce. In your poem the phrase beginning w/ " the nip" merely serves as the object of the verb "forget".

 

My comment was in praise of that your line 3 is written so that the repetition of line 1 is natural and inserted (that) merely to help clarify why I think what I say.

I'm still not sure. Is my omission of that grammatically correct (notwithstanding meaning) in this poem? I don't want good flow at the expense of grammar.

 

See what you get when you 'praise' a linguistic nut like me.

That certainly backfired on me, didn't it? :blush: Nah ... I'm just kidding! :icon_razz: I think we're fortunate to have you.

 

Tony :)


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waxwings
Thanks again, Ike.

 

In this case (neither in your poem or the example you cite), there is no subordinate clause for the 'omitted' "that" to introduce. In your poem the phrase beginning w/ " the nip" merely serves as the object of the verb "forget".

 

My comment was in praise of that your line 3 is written so that the repetition of line 1 is natural and inserted (that) merely to help clarify why I think what I say.

I'm still not sure. Is my omission of that grammatically correct (notwithstanding meaning) in this poem? I don't want good flow at the expense of grammar.

 

See what you get when you 'praise' a linguistic nut like me.

That certainly backfired on me, didn't it? :blush: Nah ... I'm just kidding! :icon_razz: I think we're fortunate to have you.

 

Tony :)

 

In as few words as this garrulous old man can put it: ypur omission of "that" does not violate any rule of grammar or semantic style I am aware of. To recapitulate: the all important part as far as I can see is the verb.

 

Let me write a few correct sentencesshort sentences all beginning with "I cannot forget ...." but could have, in place of the ellipsis, any one of the following:

 

the old man."

that old man."

what the old man said."

what the old man told me me."

that the old man told me to talk less and listen more."

 

In the last one you could leave out the "that" grammatically, but with much less semantic emphasis on that what he told me was a good piece of advice.

 

I have been more busy than usual lately, for I have taken on a part time job to have money for non-critical things I would not be able to afford. That is what happens when one retires in these days.

 

I shall study the difference between this case of usage and whether "that" is absolutely needed to begin a dependent clause.

 

You have said nothing about my'complaint re "nip" (also having the notion of a bit of alcohol) and whether "a nip can be made to relent."

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goldenlangur

Hi Tony,

 

The form and the motif work well together. The form reinforces that pervading sense of pain.

 

 

Thank you.


goldenlangur

 

 

Even a single enemy is too many and a thousand friends too few - Bhutanese saying.

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tonyv

Thank you, waxwings, for coming back to reply and for all of this:

 

In as few words as this garrulous old man can put it: ypur omission of "that" does not violate any rule of grammar or semantic style I am aware of. To recapitulate: the all important part as far as I can see is the verb.

 

Let me write a few correct sentencesshort sentences all beginning with "I cannot forget ...." but could have, in place of the ellipsis, any one of the following:

 

the old man."

that old man."

what the old man said."

what the old man told me me."

that the old man told me to talk less and listen more."

 

In the last one you could leave out the "that" grammatically, but with much less semantic emphasis on that what he told me was a good piece of advice.

As for this --

 

I have been more busy than usual lately, for I have taken on a part time job to have money for non-critical things I would not be able to afford. That is what happens when one retires in these days.

-- I guess it's okay if you don't mind it, and it's only for luxuries, not for the necessities.

 

You have said nothing about my'complaint re "nip" (also having the notion of a bit of alcohol) and whether "a nip can be made to relent."

Your points about nip are well-taken and not at all without merit, however, I'm reluctant to relent when it comes to nip in the moment. I'll think about it some more and replace or rework it if something more suitable comes to mind. Thank you again for all of it.

 

Tony


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tonyv
Hi Tony,

 

The form and the motif work well together. The form reinforces that pervading sense of pain.

 

 

Thank you.

Thank you, Goldenlangur! I like your thoughts re form and content for this poem. Good to see you!

 

Tony


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worm

it tells a long, romantic story that brings me from country road to city street; a light melancholy floating in the snow-covered winter. Somehow, ‘the nip has not relented yet’ , can be a solace for the two lovers.

 

An exquisite poem. I’m learning trio here. thanks Tony.

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