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tonyv

Argentina

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tonyv

Again, the thoughts: hands on her inked skin --
hands, no longer there -- and my gaze drops
to clouds and jets in rivers' icy flow.

A bottle washes up onto a shore
in Patagonia. Now, we of naught
will ever be a part, ever apart.

_______________________
Patagonia


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Tinker

Haha, You haven't lost your touch Tony. This tickles my brain. The word choices seem very deliberate and the rhythm fluid. I like it.

~~Tink


~~ © ~~ Poems by Judi Van Gorder ~~

For permission to use this work you can write to Tinker1111@icloud.com

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tonyv

Thank you, Judi. I do have to be deliberate with word choices especially when my poems are this short!

 

Tony :happy:


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badger11

Again, the thoughts of hands on her inked skin --

the hands no longer there -- and my gaze drops

to clouds and jets in rivers' icy flow.

 

A bottle washes up upon a shore

in Patagonia. Now, we from naught

will ever be a part, ever apart.

 

Yes, fluidity is an apt choice by Tink. I always feel enriched by a Tony poem. I certainly relate to that familiar theme of distances, threads that pull the past into the present and yet serve to emphasize times past.

 

I did wonder about dropping again, but the inevitablity and repetition of remembering is important. Intimacy gained and lost made real in the hands/skin image. I liked the line break on drops, though I thought of closes for an option, with the cold reflections of passing clouds/jets pointing to a detachment from life.

 

Thank you for sharing

 

best

 

Phil

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tonyv

Thank you, Phil. I always look forward to your thoughts and input whenever I post a poem.

... I did wonder about dropping again, but the inevitablity and repetition of remembering is important ...


I want "again" for the reasons you've stated, and what I really want is to force the reader to pause after "thoughts":

Again, the thoughts ... of hands on her inked skin --
the hands no longer there -- and my gaze drops


I've been considering various punctuation options but have not yet figured out which one will yield the desired result. Perhaps the ellipsis in the example above? Another option would be to move the em-dash:

Again, the thoughts -- of hands on her inked skin,
the hands no longer there -- and my gaze drops


I prefer conventional punctuation, and I think that the ellipsis might be more standard, more "correct." I know the ellipsis tends to be overused, but it in this case it might actually be appropriate. I tried to find an example of where a comma might have been used before "of," but I couldn't find one, and it just looks wrong; I can't bring myself to do it if it's grammatically wrong. Perhaps a colon --

Again, the thoughts: of hands on her inked skin --
the hands no longer there -- and my gaze drops


-- but that seems too strong and somewhat unconventional.

I'm curious how you read it. Do you pause after "thoughts"? If so, then perhaps it's fine as it stands in the original. Which option do you prefer?

1. The ellipsis
2. Moving the em-dash
3. The colon
4. As it stands

 

Personally, I'm leaning toward the ellipsis or nothing.

 

... I liked the line break on drops, though I thought of closes for an option ...

 

I've considered "falls" and "lowers." Which one do you prefer, "drops," "falls," or "lowers"?

 

Tony


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tonyv

Also, I changed "from" in L5 to "of":

 

... Now, we of naught ...

 

We are a part of nothingness, not from nothingness ... I guess.

 

Tony :huh:


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badger11

 

Personally, I'm leaning toward the ellipsis or nothing.

 

Definitely, I didn't/wouldn't pause in the reading without the punctuation.

 

 

Which one do you prefer, "drops," "falls," or "lowers"?

 

Perhaps lowers conveys more the hopelessness of ambition? A considered acceptance? Not sure. drops has a compulsive suddenness/pull.

 

best

 

Phil

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tonyv

Thank you again, Phil, for revisiting. I added the ellipsis, for now; I may remove it again later. I also changed "icy flow" in L3 to "blue sky flow"; that's really what I want to depict, no matter the season. I'll keep "drops" for now.; I like the "compulsive suddenness/pull" you mentioned.

 

Tony


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tonyv

On second thought, changing L3 back to "icy." "Icy" is good. If the reflections are there, then it's likely a blue sky.

 

Tony


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badger11

 

I added the ellipsis, for now; I may remove it again later.

 

I empathise with your hesitancy - comma/ellipsis/dash is a lot of orchestrating for one line, but perhaps necessary for the reading you intend. Of course, that is the challenge of a formal structure :smile:

 

 

it's likely a blue sky.

 

That is what I pictured/presumed. Still thinking on...

 

 

We are a part of nothingness, not from nothingness ... I guess.

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Benjamin

A masterclass in show not tell. Your brevity evokes expansive imagery:- imagery that's laced together in such a way, that it would take far more than your proffered six lines to interpret. Meticulously well presented. G.

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tonyv

A masterclass in show not tell. Your brevity evokes expansive imagery:- imagery that's laced together in such a way, that it would take far more than your proffered six lines to interpret. Meticulously well presented. G.

 

Thank you, Geoff. I know that you know what you're talking about, and that's why your replies always mean a lot to me. This work was compiled, pared down from about three times as many lines. This is the distillate.

 

Very much appreciated,

 

Tony


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David W. Parsley

Again, the thoughts ... of hands on her inked skin --

the hands no longer there -- and my gaze drops

to clouds and jets in rivers' icy flow.

 

A bottle washes up upon a shore

in Patagonia. Now, we of naught

will ever be a part, ever apart.

Fascinating poem and back-and-forth of analysis and revision among colleagues of long standing. At this point, the poem is so finely honed that I can only recommend removing "of" in line 1 and straining "upon" down to "on" in line 4.

 

I particularly admire the deft use of detail in "her inked skin" and the mention of a specific place - a place associated with remoteness from common human society and interaction. It is as if the bottle, once settled on that shore, will remain forever like a footprint on the Moon. As a result, despite its brevity, the poem relates a unique experience with a universally felt blend of nostalgia and unbridgeable separation.

 

Thanks for sharing this, Tony.

- Dave

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tonyv

Thank you, Dave, for the thoughtful and most kind reply.

... I can only recommend removing "of" in line 1 and straining "upon" down to "on" in line 4.


I've struggled with the "of" you point out but am hesitant to remove it because doing so will throw off the meter. I'll definitely give it some more thought and hopefully come up with something that gets rid of the "of" without the compromise. Also, I'm considering changing "upon" to "onto."

... and the mention of a specific place - a place associated with remoteness from common human society and interaction. It is as if the bottle, once settled on that shore, will remain forever like a footprint on the Moon. As a result, despite its brevity, the poem relates a unique experience with a universally felt blend of nostalgia and unbridgeable separation.

 

And I love all of this, especially the comparison to the footprint on the moon.

 

With appreciation,

 

Tony


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tonyv
On 3/11/2017 at 4:49 PM, David W. Parsley said:

At this point, the poem is so finely honed that I can only recommend removing "of" in line 1 ...

I got rid of the "of." Thanks again, Dave!

Tony :happy:


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tonyv

Still messing around with this...

Very frustrating. :wacko:


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badger11
Quote

A bottle washes up to map a shore
in Patagonia

Just a thought...

best

Phil

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tonyv
17 hours ago, badger11 said:
17 hours ago, badger11 said:

A bottle washes up to map a shore
in Patagonia ...

Just a thought...

best

Phil

Thanks again, Phil. Will probably come back to this one in time.

Tony


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badger11

Fair enough Tony. I just noted the use of on in S1 and and wondered if the prepositions up onto had a verb option.

best

Phil

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tonyv
7 hours ago, badger11 said:

Fair enough Tony. I just noted the use of on in S1 and and wondered if the prepositions up onto had a verb option.

best

Phil

And it is a very good idea, Phil. I had not even considered a verb option, and now another one has come to mind: "to mark a shore."

Tony


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badger11

Sorry, Tony specks doesn't carry that sonic quality found in reading the rest of the poem - it does work on the 'distance/insignificance content  level -  though 'mark' was more a thread to 'inked'. If the use of a verb is an option, then I feel to rather than and offers a more balanced sonic. to find may be a simpler, less noisy, thought to thread to the concluding outcome.

best

Phil

 

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tonyv
47 minutes ago, badger11 said:

Sorry, Tony specks doesn't carry that sonic quality found in reading the rest of the poem - it does work on the 'distance/insignificance content  level -  though 'mark' was more a thread to 'inked'. If the use of a verb is an option, then I feel to rather than and offers a more balanced sonic. to find may be a simpler, less noisy, thought to thread to the concluding outcome.

best

Phil

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I had also considered "dots"/"to dot" but am now leaning toward "to mark" for your reasons stated. I'm even liking "to map" as you had originally suggested. Which do you think is best, "to map," "to mark," or "to dot"? (I'll change it to "mark" for now just to get rid of "speck.")

Thanks again,

Tony


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badger11

I don't know Tony, but it is an interesting 'problem', one I enjoy thinking about. Your poems are so right musically that introducing another note is challenging. A verb in particular needs to justify itself in context, not be too dynamic - a cuckoo in the nest!

 

mark/flag/map/tag (too modern?), pen...I'll think on.

 

best

Phil

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tonyv
3 hours ago, badger11 said:

I don't know Tony, but it is an interesting 'problem', one I enjoy thinking about. Your poems are so right musically that introducing another note is challenging. A verb in particular needs to justify itself in context, not be too dynamic - a cuckoo in the nest!

 

mark/flag/map/tag (too modern?), pen...I'll think on.

 

best

Phil

Thanks, Phil. Can you imagine some lurker doing a drive-by on PMO and coming across this discussion: "Upon? Onto? Map? Mark? Spot? Speck? Dot? Mar?!? ... Nah, I think I'll switch it back again! " :laugh: But as you said, it kind of makes a big difference, especially in a composition this short. It really has to count. On the one hand, another verb can power-pack it, but on the other hand, it might just be too much!!! I may even be inclined to change it back to "washes up onto a shore" lol. One thing is for sure, when it comes to the art form where language is at its highest level, the language matters. :biggrin:

Tony :happy:


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badger11

Thanks for the interaction Tony. Highlighted the dangers/potentials of verbs/prepositions.

Sometimes the process reinforces the validity of those original choices.

best

Phil

 

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